Week in review July 5

It's always good to start out a review of the week that was with a good laugh. Thankfully Dena Pawling was available with a fistful of links about cease and desist:

West Orange New Jersey

Starbucks

The Other White Meat (this is so funny, it should come with a keyboard spew warning)

I loved LynnRodz's comment

On other agent blogs everyone is so obedient in the comment section and then we have Janet's blog and all of us are like golden retrievers.

Gotta tell ya, I love the golden retrievers here!



Jennifer R. Donohue had a dog moment to share:

The proudest I've ever been of Elka was when we were at the park and she was on a long leash (so, 25 feet away from me). I saw her pick something up. I said "drop it", she did, and I whistled her recall and let her shove her face in the treat bag, 'cause really, that was pretty amazing. Then I went to see what she'd picked up. It was a turkey sandwich. My dog had an entire turkey sandwich in her mouth and dropped it when I said so.

Colin Smith provided us with some info about Carkoon

And of course Carkoon has a bookstore! Where d'you think we get our kale and lima bean recipes from? A lot of the fiction is of the dino erotica and vampire/zombie/unicorn nature... and strange mixes of the above. That's why here at Fuzzy Print (FPLM-Carkoon), we try to attract the talentless and literacy-challenged. That's the only way we can compete. All you clever, talented writers wouldn't stand a chance...

which Amy Schaefer (safely back from her adventures) took issue with:

Hmm, Colin. Looking over the current-occupant rolls of Carkoon, I'd say you're having some trouble attracting the talentless. But keep working at it.

Also, I hope you aren't suggesting that dino-erotica/vampire/zombie/unicorn/icky-recipe books somehow constitute a lesser genre. Because my forthcoming work about a drunken triceratops detective fighting the zombie apocalypse side-by-side with a lusty unicorn and a wacky vegetarian vampire sidekick is, in my humble opinion, the greatest novel ever written. (Be sure to look for it in the Mystery-Erotica-Fantasy-Thriller-Humor-Cookbook section of your local bookstore.)

MeganV wondered if LynnRodz's dancing in Paris would be in the monlight:





I'm not sure if y'all know that here at the Reef when everyone else has gone home, we do in fact have dancing.  Not quite as festive as that clip, but I'm pretty sure the people in the offices across the street are amused.

This week (on July 2nd right before the holiday) the soundtrack was Imelda May's Mayhem.



It gets you UP and out of your chair, oh yes indeed!


On Monday the topic turned to a fellow who thought he'd get an agent then reject the contract she was sure to procure for him and self-publish.
I was not amused.

Tony Clavelli nailed why a lot of the commenters both here and at the AW site where the comment was made were so annoyed:

AJ--Yeah! The whole "I'll just get an agent and then..." kind of stung. I think that's why everyone here is reacting so viscerally to this--that arrogance strikes a nerve when we've been working so hard.

Dena Pawling's comment reflected exactly what my experience has been with writers who elect to publish their work themselves

What this writer describes seems sort of backwards from every self-pub author I know from my local RWA meeting. Pretty much all of them hire a freelance editor to polish their work after their CPs and betas are finished with it. They hire a cover designer. They get blurbs. When they're sure it's their best work, they pub it. And they all agree that one of the benefits of self-pub is how quickly it goes live, even with all these steps.

Fortunately our own brianrschwarz has offered to help this poor fellow out:

I may send him an email offering representation just to see where it goes. ;) I'll tell him he can't find my agent page on the internet because I get all my clients by word of mouth. And then it's time to propose edits such as

-more aliens
-more dinosaurs
-more time travel
-more aliens
-remove all proper nouns from the book. All the NYT Bestsellers are skipping proper nouns these days.
-did I mention more aliens?

Marian Perera linked us to the post on AW, and I did click over and peruse.
It's very clear this fellow has no clue about how the publishing industry works. Not the query process, the editing process, the publication process and CERTAINLY not how books are sold.

Jenz nailed it

How to compensate the agent is a non-issue, because no legitimate agent would ever sign someone who expects accommodations like control over book prices.

Publication contracts reserve control of all aspects of publication to the publisher. A good agent can negotiate things like "meaningful consultation" on cover art, and jacket copy. There's not a chance in hell you'll get anything on price. Absent very special circumstances, I'd never even ask for the author to have input into pricing. At some point you just have to accept that the publisher does have say over how they publish and sell a book. If you don't want to agree to that, it's ok. Self publishing gives you total control on price.

Laura Brennan had a very interesting point

Oh, and if anyone has not yet read Gavin De Becker's "The Gift of Fear," truly it is a must read. He teaches you how to recognize sociopaths -- and one of the ways is that they blurt out reassurances (like, "I will pay the agent a commission") without being asked. Bad guys can't *unknow* what they know, which is that they plan to screw you over. So they blurt out reassurances where none are needed.

I once had a client assure me out of the blue that he would never throw me under the bus. Ha!

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard someone say something like "I'd never do X" and realize that of course they will. If they wouldn't do it, it wouldn't occur to them to say so.


Julie Weathers quoted another insane statement from the AW thread:

"Agents are used to rejection because 50% of the people they offer representation to decline to go with another agent."

That stat does NOT reflect my experience at all. It doesn't even reflect the experience of our younger less experienced agents here.

On happier topics, it turns out Carkoon has a magazine. Who knew?

french sojourn:

Colin please don't mention my various contributions to your monthly magazine...Repenthouse. Thanks man!

Scott Sloan has a delightful new word:

as he packed his swimmies for his inevitable banishment to the tropical paradise that is Carkoon…

Swimmies! I've never heard bathing costumes referred to as such. I'm adopting it instantly.



On Tuesday we talked about the out of print clauses in publishing contracts, and using one piece of information, out of context, to substantiate an opinion.

Angie Brooksby-Arcangioli made a good point:

I think there is a very large missing-piece of the puzzle in this argument. No one is self-publishing. They are publishing digitally via a big ass business called Amazon or Blogger or whatever. Recently I read that Amazon decided to pay author royalties by the number of pages read. Here is an enterprise that states they can change whatever they choose anytime. Take it or leave it. There is no room for negotiation.

bjmuntain responded to her:

But there are many ways to self-publish, and they don't all include using Amazon or other big business formats. Self-publishing can include print books as well as e-books. Anyone considering self-publishing needs to do a lot of careful research into what they can and can't do, and how to go about doing what they want.

kdjames elaborated:

I have no complaints about my experience self-publishing with Amazon. It's pretty much exactly what they say it will be in their fine print. But they aren't a publisher. They're a distributor. Big difference. Now, they DO have several imprints (47 North is the only one I can think of, off the top of my head) and if you sign a publishing contract with one of those imprints, then Amazon IS your publisher. I've heard good things from writers who've gone that route and who seem especially pleased with Amazon's marketing efforts. So, yes, self-publishing is the correct term for what the majority of writers do over there.

For clarity: self-publishing means you're the decision maker on the content, production and sale of the book. If someone else can say "no" to any aspect of the book (other than a seller refusing to stock it) you're not self-publishing.


french sojourn said

I get the impression that we are in the most fluid of times for publishing contracts

Absolutely not true, sadly. If anything contracts are getting MUCH more detailed and much more rigid. As the opportunities to exploit rights grows, publishers are trying to hang on to as much as they can. They've got clauses for rights that no one is really sure how to exploit yet (enhanced ebooks anyone?)

Steve Stubbs asked

If the book does not sell or otherwise h as essentially no commercial value, who cares who owns the copyright? We might as well get intense about who owns the copyright on last year’s newspaper.

You do! You the author never EVER give up your copyright on a book. And you never know when intellectual property will go up in value. Win the Nobel Prize in literature and your books will fly off the shelves like hotcakes off the grill at the Buckaroo Breakfast (hat tip to Julie M Weathers here)

Someone takes a photo of the President holding a copy of your book, and whamma slamma jamma, you have a book that everyone is suddenly talking about.

The value of intellectual property can be fluid. Never treat it like it's detritus.


John Frain cracked me up completely with this:

I have a special place in my heart (suddenly) for a person who takes things out of context.

This was a 610-word post, yet all I got out of it was 7 words:

"come to my office at Happy Hour."

LynnRodz asked:

Janet, what time does Happy Hour start at your office? Scott's getting the first round so I'll have a frozen margarita. (You can't get a decent one here in Paris unless you make it yourself and I need one.*)

Some days Happy Hour starts just about the time we crawl in. Most other days 5pm. And we'll need a blender if we're making margaritas. Normally Happy Hour here is just the bourbon IV.

Adele mentioned the fashion designer Joseph Abboud in the context of someone who lost rights to their own name.

The only reason I know who Joseph Abboud is comes from The Wire:

(some NSFW language in this; turn volume off if kids are present)





On Wednesday we discussed whether having only digital sales was a red flag for an agent.
I said no.

donnaeve asked:

Now, I'm left wondering, who is responsible for listing deals? The agent or the publisher? Or both - i.e. they talk, they agree when to list?

Generally the editor and I discuss when/if to post a deal to PM. Sometimes we elect not to post until the manuscript is finished with copyediting. Sometimes we announce right away to get film and foreign interest revved up. It's not something that's anyone's responsibility. Some deals never get announced at all (I've got several of those myself.)


And donnaever further said:

If an agent spends any amount of time telling you who they've signed (which has been discussed here before I believe) to impress you to sign with them, then this [PM listings] would be the perfect vehicle to "toot their own horn."

In my opinion, you can find out everything you need to know about me by reading my client''s books. After all, they have killed and maimed me several times. How can that not be love?

Dena Pawling asked:

(1) does PM allow a publisher to modify the agent's page on the PM site?
(2) What percentage of sales are actually reported on PM?

(3) If this percentage is low, how useful is PM for writer's to use for research?

(1) no. The only person who can edit my page is me (or whichever minion is tasked with that job and entrusted with my pass words)
Note however that my page here


is NOT the same as the page you get if you search deals:

this link requires a subscription to PM to read. Here's the screen shot

My page is woefully behind. My deals postings less so but still not caught up.

For those of you wondering why I'm such a total slacker, remember, PM was NEVER intended as a resource for query writers. It was intended for foreign publishers to see what had sold in the US and get in touch with agents.

If I sold world rights, I don't need to get in touch with foreign publishers. If I've sold the film rights, I don't need to build buzz with a PM deal announcement.

And honestly, updating PM is one of 7934 things on my to do list, and getting contracts done comes first. And selling. And solving client problems. And researching what that new editor over at BigAssImprint is looking for cause boy howdy I've got some good stuff sitting here just waiting for a smart editor to snap up.


(2) I have no idea. My guess is more than half, less than 75% but that's just ballparking it.

(3) It's one tool among many. It's not the best or the most comprehensive, but it can be useful.

The opinions of the commenters here will be more useful than mine. I do use it to see what editors are acquiring, but only as a starting point. I read the books that editors acquired. That's what I look at most.



Angie Brooksby-Arcangioli said

It’s good to hear that agent’s can be social media shy, including PM. One agent I plan to query has only a twitter presence. I’ve wondered if some lit agencies ask their agents to not have a social media presence.

Social media can be a real problem sometimes. We see it with our interns. Some of them didn't really understand that once they have FinePrint intern in their bio, they aren't just free to tweet what they want. One reason they're interns of course is to learn that stuff before it costs them a job and a career setback.

I also watch what my clients post with an eagle eye. Someone gets too far of the track and they're going to get a quick call from me that says "hey, what's going on over there"

I don't know if any agencies ask agents to be mute, but sometimes mute is just easier than trying to stay on top of a variety of sensibilities. I'm lucky that my colleagues here at FPLM have so far not objected to my …err…vowel language, or my idiosyncratic opinions about all things publishing.




On Thursday we discussed crit partners with bad manners. I was reluctant to offer advice, thinking the commenters would have better ideas. I was right.

Of course, there were those who echoed my thoughts completely;

Buzz off, Bob.--Kitty

Dude's a tool.--DLM

And Dena had a very astute observation:

There is a BIG difference between “everyone is friends” and “everyone knows everyone.” Based on what you wrote, the second phrase may be true, but the first phrase certainly doesn't sound true.

And this is very good advice from Matt Adams' dad:

My dad had a lot of great advice, but one of them was the -- don't talk about your problems at work while you're at home, because then you have two problems. I think that's what is going on with Opie -- s/he is talking to people in her social circle about writing.

Don't.

I really liked what Laura Brannen added to the conversation:

I took a writing class in which, for the duration (twelve weeks), we were not allowed to speak about our work outside of class. The teacher said it dissipated the work, talking about it instead of doing it and opening it up to people who would muck us up - not on purpose, but because they couldn't see it as we could.

"Bob, thank you for your support but I've decided not to talk about or share my work. Please don't ask me about it again."

Telling him why only invites him to argue with you

I talk with my clients about whether they should continue with a writing group or crit group once they have a contract for publication. Sometimes it's valuable to continue, but not always. Too many cooks trying to salt the soup can be a problem.


and it has now become clear that I am an Official Bad Influence. Yes I say that with pride.

Here's Mister Furkles on why:

So I confess to having a devious mind. Warped really. It wasn’t always thus. It’s Janet’s fault really; she got me into reading thrillers and mysteries full of devious, evil people. So after a few dozen novels by folks like DeMille, Lee Child, Jeff Somers, Sanford, Pat Lee, Preston & Child, and others, …well, I just don’t think the right thing anymore.

(1) No more friends or family in your critique group. Get an online critique group. But first research them. Try several. Find two: One you like and join it, another that’s not so good.

(2) Drive to a distant library with public computers where nobody knows you. Wear latex gloves and a medical mask. Keep your hat on and wear dark glasses. Don’t park in the library lot but a couple of blocks away. You get the idea.

(3) At the library, join the bad CG using somebody else’s name; I recommend Bob’s name. Find a story in your genre that is not too good. You want something that is moderately well written and with a good idea that’s executed poorly. Copy it to a thumb drive. Remove the writer’s name and give it to Bob.

DLM said

I'm struck by the presumption that our OP is a woman. If we were assuming OP was a man, would there be this insistence upon sweetness and light, on pretending nothing happened, on looking at anything - strategies for how to find a new CP, or just how to exit this non-partnership - other than the problem.

If the OP were a man, we wouldn't have the question. My experience is that men are much more willing to say FOAD than are women.

And speaking of good manners, I liked what Elissa M. had to say here:

Unwavering manners nearly always have greater impact than blowing off some steam. In the long run, I find extreme satisfaction in remaining polite despite there seemingly being every reason not to.

Which reminded me of the very calm, very rational "FU" that PW sent to Bill O'Reilly recently.


And it turns out Miri Baker likes to sew! (and eat cake of course)

{{Incidentally, Captcha and I disagree on what one might call a "birthday cake" and what is clearly just "I stopped by the bakery after sewing for ten hours straight."}}

You guyz are going to regret when my painting is done, because then I'm going to start talking about window treatments, and portiers!

Turns out I had to edit the blog title when Jennifer R. Donohue mentioned:

As a side note, and I debated mentioning this, "QQ" is Internet/MMO parlance for "crying", "quitting", or "why don't you quit?"

and speaking of ..err…editing bj muntain said:

Regarding pointing out spelling errors:

I honestly wouldn't think twice if it were in the post itself. Normally, I wouldn't mention it at all. But headers are kind of important. Not only are they read more carefully (and by more people) but they affect how search engines see the post. I don't know if search engines or SEO are important to Janet, but maybe they are. So I mentioned it.

I am always glad to get a heads up on a spelling error on these posts. Particularly in the headline. I may write back to tell you you need new spectacles, but that's only after I've fixed it.

I can't stand to have posts with errors but as you all know by now, that's more of a goal than a reality.
So, don't worry you're offending me.

On the other hand, you absolutely cannot call out any of the commenters for spelling or syntax or diction. That reduces the conversation to public shaming and I will not have that. (Fortunately, there has been none of that here in years.)


On Friday we discussed sales to libraries.

I took the opportunity to do my I Love Libraries dance.

I loved all the stories of your libraries (and how you love them!)

Ashes had an interesting contribution about donated books:

We've also received self-published books in the mail and we generally put them in the summer book sale, not on the shelves. Memorably, the post once brought us a poorly edited memoir which was basically one long thinly-veiled attack on the author's ex-wife. I imagined him sending it to libraries all across the country. That poor woman.

That reminded me of a 2006 lawsuit against Authorhouse when an author did basically the same thing.

And Ashes also had a good point about how to get your own book on library shelves:

Here's the best way to get your book on our library shelves: become a patron. When a regular library patron shows up and sheepishly mentions he's published we get excited. There are two I know of, one self-published and one traditionally published, both fantastic non-fiction authors. When they come in with a new title we promptly put it on the shelf and enter it into our system (which means it can be requested by libraries all over the province via an inter-library loan)

Cynthia Mc said something that caught my attention:

When libraries converted to the Dewey decimal system, my mother converted every school library I went to (we moved a lot). She would have me shelve the books, which worked for about 5 minutes until I found one I wanted to read.

I thought libraries were always on the Dewey decimal system. From what system were was your mom converting?

I did a quick trip down google lane on that question (you want to search on "classification" instead of "organization" to avoid pictures of bookcases!) and found some interesting info.

I'll let y'all do your own research there if you want.


Dena Pawling is having fun with the books in her library:

Last week I was browsing the NEW BOOKS shelves and found two awesome books – the acknowledgment page on one thanks Barbara Poelle and the other thanks Janet Reid [does anyone here know these folks?] I've never written a formal book review but I'm gonna try it for these books, just for fun. I've already started a page on my blog and done a preliminary review [not that I would know if there is such a thing as “preliminary review”] of both books, it's here if anyone is interested

The first one is Murder With a Twist by Tracy Kiely and I love love love that book! Barbara Poelle is Tracy's agent, but I am her devoted fan. Everyone who loves witty charming mysteries should read this book.

And of course that's Loretta Ross' Death and the Redheaded Woman for the book I'm mentioned in. Loretta's voice is so charming that it's entirely possible you'll fall in love with her on the spot. I sure did. Her books have characters I want to spend time with, which is one of the benchmarks for a good book.


Dena Pawling also asked about "Library binding"

My husband says that library books have “library binding.” Not sure if most of the books I've ever checked out, had any different/more sturdy binding than I usually find in books at bookstores. He also wondered about the questions I asked, and I didn't know the answer, so I asked.

Library binding is a method to increase the durability of books for the harder use that libraries require. Some books don't get library bindings, but the jackets are covered in a clear wrap that protects them from wear and tear.

I remember watching librarians do those dust jackets on new books (usually something I wanted to read!) and waiting (impatiently) for the book to hit the New Titles shelf.


I loved this comment from Eileen:

Growing up I used to run my fingers along the library shelves, locate where my then unwritten future novels would go and then I would shove the books off to either side making a little room. I felt by making real space I was willing those books into being. Now when I see my real books on the shelves it still gives me a thrill.

b-nye wondered:

Okay, now I'm a little confused. I thought there was a publishing house that only published books for library sales. I recently had a beta reader of mine publish with one 14 months from Ms to book jacket.
So, no?

Some publishers publish primarily for the library market, but every publisher sells to libraries, or the wholesalers who supply the library market.

And 14 months from acquisition to publication is about right for all books. Selling in to the library market is neither faster nor slower than any other kind of publishing.

The difference between selling to bookstores and selling to libraries is books sold to libraries aren't returnable. Books sold to bookstores are. Once those library dust jackets go on, and "property of the Carkoon Library" is stamped on it, that book is no longer in returnable condition.

Given how much we all hate returns (and we do) sales to libraries are always a very welcome thing.



I loved this from NotJana

NotJana
Writer-in-training
Step 1 - write anything: completed
Steps 2+3 - fan fiction, finish novel length stories: completed
Step 4 - finish novel(s), crappy or otherwise: completed
Step 5 - edit novel(s) and be less wordy: procrastinating
Step 6 - go back to 4 & 5, rinse and repeat: succeeding in 4, failing in 5
Step 7 - stop making lists and do 5: LOL

On Saturday the topic was publishing online and potential problems in doing so.

I had said that I thought WattPad took a percentage of any money earned from books that were originally published there, and to make sure you read their Terms of Service.

Well delicartoons did and couldn't find any reference to that:

I read through their terms of service and didn't find anything saying that.

I found this:

>C. For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions. However, by submitting User Submissions to Wattpad.com, you hereby grant Wattpad.com a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Wattpad.com Website. You also hereby grant each user of the Wattpad.com Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website. You understand and agree, however, that Wattpad.com may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of User Submissions that have been removed or deleted.

But I didn't find anything saying they had any claim to what happens to your stuff in the future.

I couldn't find it either. My comment was based on anecdotal evidence: an editor pal of mine acquired a book that began on WattPad, and WattPad is one of the payees for the book.

The advice to read submission guidelines VERY carefully still stands however.


bjmuntain asked:

I'm curious. One thing I've heard about and not been sure of with Wattpad (and possibly other such sites) is whether a book published there is considered 'published' elsewhere?

It depends. "Previously published" is a fluid definition. I've heard of contests that don't want previously published work entered, and they define it to include material that's been posted online. My own definition of "previously published" means it had an ISBN number and was offered for retail purchase.


and bjmuntain also asked:

Does publishing on Wattpad get in the way of novel sales (to agents, editors, or the general public)?

No.


This coming week is ThrillerFest which means a horde of clients will descend upon New York City, and I'll be holding down a spot in the bar at the Grand Hyatt with my boon companion in crime the slithery Barbara Poelle.



Both of us will be helping writers hone their queries during PitchPractice on Thursday.

Notice that we're actually sitting side by side during this slow motion riot:

 If you're coming to T/fest, stop by and say hello.

There will be a writing contest next week as well.



The subheader candidates for this week are:
(1) Great Writing is the best revenge.--french sojourn

(2) If the publishing world is a tragic comedy, then the blog family here is the Greek chorus - only one that says, "Derp!" and "Rawr!" and "Hell yeah!" I--Christina Seine

There are some great questions slated for next week!