I queried about thirty agents last winter (2015) with my first ms, a thriller about Cambodia/Khmer Rouge. Save one partial request, all flat-out rejections. I self-published at the same time as querying. (1)
This year, Angelina Jolie is releasing a film about the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, through an adaptation of the memoir 'First They Killed My Father' by Loung Ung. Film will be released on Netflix. Good or bad, everything Angelina does gets press.
(A celebrity is releasing a film this year about the obscure topic that will bring it more to public awareness...)
There is almost no current fiction about Cambodia. If the movie does well, I think it will help my book. (2)
Question is: Should I re-query all the same agents as I did last year, highlighting this upcoming movie? (3)
Or query only new-to-me agents (4)
Or does it seem like a complete non-event and move on? (5)
Or a wait and see how movie does? (6)
And should I unself-publish first? (7)
I feel like I am sitting on an opportunity now that before was a 'No One else Cares'.
Thanks for the blog, wish had found it earlier. (8)
(1) If you self-published at the same time you queried, you seriously misunderstand the purpose of both self-publishing and querying. I don't take on books that are already published. Agents who do look for strong sales. If you've just published, unless there was a tsunami of sales on Day One, even agents who take on self-pubbed books won't be interested.
(2) Go to Amazon, type in the search term "novels about Cambodia." I came up with six. When you look on GoodReads, there are more. When I see this kind of statement in a query, and my very cursory research doesn't support your statement, I'm hugely dissuaded from considering your work further. You're much better off emphasizing how your novel is DIFFERENT from the other novels out there. You don't have to be only, you just have to be new and fresh.
(3) No. Publishing works on a long lead time. Right now, I'm selling books in to Fall 2017 catalog and Winter 2018 lists. You've missed the window completely for Fall 2016.
(4) Sure, if you want to.
(5) The success or failure of Angelina Jolie's movie will have almost zero impact on whether someone wants to read your book UNLESS Angelina Jolie's movie is based on your book.
(6) See #5
(7) There is no such thing as unpublishing. You've published the book. It's got an ISBN number and if you were smart, a copyright registration. Those things do not go away even if the book isn't available for sale.
(8) Me too, if only to have spared you what seems like a lot of work for no reward.
As a general rule, a movie based on a book is good news for that particular book, but it doesn't help books in the entire category. One of the (many) reasons for this is that the movie is based on a book that was published several (if not more) years ago. That means that publishers wanting to ride the wave of any renewed interest in this topic are going to look at their backlist (previously published books) FIRST, not try to acquire something to publish now. Reprinting a book can be done in weeks. Publishing a novel takes MONTHS if not a year or more.
Bottom line: query new agents if your book is selling well. If it's not, be prepared for a vast swath of silence.
If your book is not selling well, at the risk of sounding cavalier about the challenges of writing: write another book and start the query process anew. OR invest in making the self-published book a success.
50 comments:
As I see it #1 is OP's biggest speed bump.
Because no one said yes when you asked them to the prom you bought a ticket for one and danced alone. You'll never get another chance for that prom, so plan for the next one, and ask around again. This time you might get lucky.
My heart breaks today's OP didn't find this blog sooner; you can't un-lose your book's virginity. I'm wincing just thinking of how honestly and how hard they tried. And, yeah, how familiar some of this is to thinking I had when I first thought I had finished my first novel. Ow, ow, ow.
Stick around, OP, and keep reading. You will be so glad you did.
This is a reminder how lucky we Reiders are to have found ourselves in the reef when we did. What a lot of hair pulling frustration this blog has saved me. I know that is true of a lot of us.
Now, of course, I am super fretting over sending out next round of queries and requests because I don't want to let Janet down. She will find out if my query is terrible, if my book is not its best and I don't even want to think about the synopsis.
So I tell myself let it bake a few more days just to be sure book, query, and synopsis are all they can be. Then it's all should I capitalize the name of that fantastical beast I created, should ship names be in italics but Janet said no italics? Is there ever a reason to use the word "just" or should I strip it from the manuscript altogether? I so love the reef, but I fear it has also driven me mad. I blame the kale.
And I really despise daylight savings. I need coffee. The injectable kind.
The thing I lack most and need an abundance of in this business is patience. Snails move faster than publishing and if you have no patience, this is not the business for you. I'm sorry for OPie, but after reading the question it seems he/she sent around a query to several agents and decided that patience in this case was not a virtue so self-pubbed at the same time. That book is as good as dead now to any agent who might have at one time been interested and in the future as well. The minute you self-pubbed, you signed its death warrant. Sorry. There are so very few exceptions to that (Amanda Hocking and that...yeah, we all know the other series I'm talking about) that you need to decide if you want an agent or if you just want published.
Move on, work on the next book. If Cambodia is the setting of your heart, write another there, edit it to within an inch of its life and then write a brilliant query to accompany it. Just remember, it could be months and months before you hear anything back on your query, IF you ever do. Jumping the gun and self-pubbing any book concurrently is wasting the agent's time.
Oh, Opie, my heart aches for you. Nevertheless, welcome to the Reef. May you gain much on your way to mastery.
I am curious about your choice to indie pub while you were querying. Was that just an apprentice's mistake, or did you have a plan?
Now, what about your second book? Every author should have a second book. One book does not a career make.
Jason, fret not that you're writing epic high fantasy. If your voice and style is hooky and carries the reader along, you're not gonna get rejected because it's an epic high fantasy. You'll get rejected because you can't write a good epic high fantasy.
Write a stunning epic high fantasy, and someone will wet themselves over it.
In my experience, most agents are asking for sample pages with their queries (usually 10pp). Unless the query letter is a total turn-off (ie, you pitched a mystery when they only handle frothy contemporary romance), they'll be looking at your first page. If you can hook 'em there, good job.
Voice and style.
Y'all repeat after me: voice 'n' style.
This is what hooks your agent at first. How well you constructed the plot the characters and the whole darn book is what gets you signed in the end.
Janet's words and the OP's question come at a fantastic time for me. I am finally finished editing my book and now I am ready to seriously query agents. My book is absolutely high epic fantasy.
Bethany Elizabeth mentioned in a comment on QueryShark that there is nothing new under the sun, in fantasy. Plot wise, that may be true, but the races in my book are absolutely new.
Amazon them if you want, Goodreads them all day long. But my book isn't about the Fantasy really, its about the characters, there lives, and interactions with those around them; their experiences and the bonds they form with other characters.
Writing a book in my genre has no bearing on what the genre is doing movie wise. Also writing a book in a genre or setting that you think might be popular, or popular because its obscure, is not a good way to start. Your book should have its own strength, it should be able to stand on its own and give people reasons to read it.
Janet is not the only one to say that, 'agents will not be interested in a book that is already published', unless its a cash cow out the gate. That is pretty much the status quo. Anytime you have a cow that can beat a horse in a race, your going to be making dividends. But if you are without your proverbial racing cow, then odds are they are not going to consider your book for representation.
Good luck on your journey and remember never stop writing.
Having just spent the week suffering from the Tummy Bug from Hell and other feverish fun, a vague memory surfaced about me self-pubbing four books. It freaked me out so much I actually went and checked Amazon/Smashwords/etc.
To my relief, I hadn't. Still, why do I get the strange feeling that something went down regarding four books this year?
Not that I mind the concept of self-pubbing four books. It's something I could do. I just hope to do it while lucid and not while throwing up.
As soon as I read that OP had queried and self-pubbed, virtually at the same time, saw QOTKU stamp a 1) by the statement, my internal voice said, "Uh oh."
This might have been a newbie mistake. But it does smack of impatience too, and like nightsmusic mentioned, patience is a must if you decided to pursue a writing career.
Patience can be learned, (speaking from experience) that's the good news. When I first set myself down and wrote in earnest, writing with a seriousness towards publication, it took two years of word primping and fluffing to get the ms into good enough shape for editors to consider. It took another several years to make a sale. That's just how it goes.
Hopefully, like all of us out here, this is a learning experience - an oh shit one maybe, but now you know. And now that you know, you can either pursue #4 on the advice above, AND write a new book.
Good luck!
Hm. Typos/errors in the above. But hopefully it's clear enough. Maybe that's DST biting me back now.
Monday morning, lost an hour AND donated blood this weekend, so the brain isn't fully in gear - but I think I remember some famous author who always advised those new to the profession to go do something, anything, else. He figured that if they took his advice they'd be happier, and if they didn't it was because they had no choice - they simply, truly had to write, and they had a shot at success.
This post reminded me of that, since there's so much that's wrong with writing as a profession. You spend at least a year, probably much more, writing that first book, and the response is so often "Hey, that one won't work, but there's some potential there, so just go write another one, okay?" And that's if you're LUCKY. But we keep at it, because we write, and it's as simple as that.
Welcome to the Reef, Opie (original poster, for those not up on our lingo). We may have a Shark for our Queen, but the water's actually fine, and we've all got each other's back. Keep reading, post when you want to, and I'm sure you will get more of a foothold in this crazy business.
Yes Opie, hang out here with us. This QOTKU's world and it's a school that attracts all sorts of folks. You'll learn a lot from the vommenters too.
Speaking of which...somewhere along the line, I missed what DST means and it's not in the glossary. And it's the Monday after .....ok, got it. Daylight Savings Time. jeeesh.
-wanders off for more caffeine-
I have nothing to add to Janet's answer to OP, except best of luck with your book and I hope the movie version of FIRST THEY KILLED MY FATHER does attract interest in reading about Cambodia.
I was fortunate enough to hear Loung Ung, the author of FIRST THEY KILLED MY FATHER, speak two weeks ago at my daughter's school about her life and her book. She spoke to all the grade levels and then to the parents at night. What an amazing woman and a heartbreaking but somehow uplifting story. Really made me think about the plight of refugees around the world.
You do have one thing really going for you, OP. Unlike authors who happened to write a vampire novel a few years after Twilight, you probably won't have to deal with a flooded market. So if you want to promote your self-published novel, you have one giant green check mark in that it's a (relatively) unique-ish topic. I wish you luck, whatever you decide! :)
Heidi, you're making me nervous! :) Do you HAVE to have two novels ready-to-go before you query for one? I have several novels in the drawer, but they were my 'learning' novels and will hopefully never EVER see the light of day without some pretty extensive rewrites.
All good points made. Welcome to reef, OPie! You got a partial request--that ain't nothing. Use is as encouragement to keep going, even if it's with another project.
I think Janet mentioned in a recent post that there are other similarities to consider as well as place and time. Similar themes also work, even if the similarities might not be as obvious. But I also like how she mentioned how important it is to emphasize how your novel is different. (*Furiously takes notes)
Read widely. Query widely. Keep writing.
Bethany, I think Her Grace meant you should have a second book in you, and be working on it while querying the first - not so much that you have to have two completed manuscripts available at all times.
Of course, I too am enduring the effects of DST, three weeks of ongoing migraine/flu/head cold, and a dearth of caffeine, so perhaps I should stuff a cork in it and let Her Grace speak for herself ...
I have nothing to add to this other than to wish Opie all the best. If you love the novel you've already self-pubbed, then maybe you should concentrate efforts on making it a success, rather than trying to convince an agent to take it on...? But what do I know? :)
I'm taking a DST holiday today. I need to use up time off carried over from last year by March 15th, and my birthday falls a few weeks too late, so this is the perfect alternative. I get a day to recover from DST jet lag and let my body settle into a new schedule. I might make a habit of it. :)
Oh, and the pedant in me insists on pointing out that it is Daylight Saving Time. Neither singular nor possessive. Unless you're in the UK, and then it's "British Summer Time." But that's not until this coming Sunday, I believe. Okay, pedantry over. Back to regular vommenting... :)
As I read the post and then scrolled down through the comments, I tried to formulate pretty much what Colin ended up saying. Since your book is published, concentrate on making it a success. You might try to find other writers who are working on Cambodian fiction, or people in the We Need Diverse Books Camp, reviewers, that kind of thing.
You know OP, I think Colin is right.
If you believe in your novel all is not lost. Maybe self-pubbing was the right thing to do.
Regarding the general consensus here, perhaps your steps have been a little ahead of each other but why not make the best of it.
Market the crap out of your already published book, while you work on your next project.
Give a go.
Fate has a funny way of back-dooring success for writers.
To the original poster, welcome! I'm pretty sure everyone here wishes we'd found this blog sooner for one reason or another.
I don't have anything to add about the topic at hand, though for those still grumbling about Daylight Saving[s] Time, I do have this:
Daylight Saving Time: How Is This Still a Thing?
OP, you have one sure thing going for you, you found Janet's blog. Stick around and you'll learn a lot. I'll be honest with you, if you had asked your questions on some other sites, you would've been massacred. Here, we're all pretty friendly. We do have a queen who keeps us under control with threats of being sent back to Carkoon, so we're a civilized bunch. (Most of us, anyway.)
All I can say is we all started off not really knowing how this publishing business worked. I'm certain it's the same for self-publishing. Now that you've self-published your book, if you believe strongly in it, learn the best way of getting your book noticed and sold. Others have done it, you can too. Good luck, now I'm off to see if I can buy myself a thoroughbred cow.
I don't know if we should necessarily attribute OP's self-publishing to impatience. It's possible OP received some bad advice.
I have had several authors (mostly wannabepublished or self-published) tell me that you have to self-publish these days and that it's the only way to get noticed by the publishing industry. And they will not be swayed. And they insist on telling me that I need to self-publish. I don't have the energy or money to do it right, so nope. Not gonna.
OP: As Janet says, most publishers are going to look in their backlist for similar novels to sell if this movie is a success. You have a backlist of one similar novel.
Write up a marketing and publicity plan now. Figure out the necessities of selling your book - I'm assuming it's electronic only if you're talking about 'unpublishing' it. Check into what it would take to have it on print on demand, and get that set up if possible. Just in case.
Decide if it needs to be re-edited, maybe have someone do a thorough proofread to make sure there's no problems. (If you've already had this done professionally, you're ahead of the game.)
Figure out how you're going to publicize it, and sell it in relation to the movie. Have you read the book the movie is going to be made from? If not, do so, so you know more about the similarities and differences between what will be the movie and your own novel. Find a social media venue or two that you're comfortable with. If it's Facebook, set up a page for your novel. Get a website up and ready to go, with links to wherever they can purchase your novel. You're lucky - you've got some time before the movie comes out to get ready and to learn more about publicizing your book. And when the movie does come out (or even earlier), market the hell out of it.
Janet, I think you mean dissuaded in point two.
Wow! Jennifer and 2Ns both agree with me. :D Maybe I know something, and if I do, it's only because I've been hanging around here so long. Coming up on five years going by the contest spreadsheet. Yeah, I know, some of you have been here since Janet discovered Blogger. My point--yes, I had one--is that most of us came here with noobie delusions about how publishing worked, or absolutely no idea what we were doing. Any sound advice I have comes from the fact I've been hanging out with the smart people for a few years. :)
Happy Pi-Day people!
Op, I think you just need to find your focus and get back on track.
This blog can be daunting because it points out so many things none of us had noticed before. Not all of those things pertain to everyone but they are very good to know. They help keep your feet on the ground. That is necessary because writing is a business, even if it is a creative endeavor for those doing the writing.
You already picked which hat you are wearing when you self published. Work toward making that a success while plotting the manuscript for your next vehicle. The only way to gather success is to work at it.
Happy Pi-day to you too Colin (3-14)
OP, hope all goes well for you. Not knowing much context, I might suggest doing deeper research prior to querying your next novel. I am a newbie and may be in your same boat as far as querying success come this time next year, but I do know a few things from research, research, research on the process.
You're right, this blog is a great place to start. Other agents also have some excellent blogs and informative sites. Information not only on the publishing process but also on what's already been done many times over (like common openings, etc.). I don't mean to sound insulting if you've already done this, but from your questions it sounded like you had not. I really do feel for you. Writing (and esp. rejection regarding said writing) is definitely not for the faint-hearted. It's HARD. Best of luck!
At the risk of doing THIS wrong too, let me say here that I'm the OP. Hope I am allowed to do so.
As to the original post, I willingly profess my near ignorance, a year+ ago, about the processes and expectations of self-publishing and traditional publishing. Yes, there was also a dose of impatience and general over-excitement at wanting people to read my story. On the plus side, self-publishing gave me a hard deadline, which I have since learned to impose in other ways. The story had been meandering for four years, gone through several iterations, and once I stuck a hard date on it, I finished it. Alas.
Happily, I do have another career and don't expect financial security or even gain from this satisfying ongoing effort. Not to be contrary, but I have been rewarded from the self-publishing process - though, of course, little of it monetary. :)
Thanks for all your thoughts. I learn and laugh on a daily basis here.
Nothing to add for Opie, I'm afraid. But I do have a question. I'm hearing a lot of people grumbling about Daylight Saving. What's the big deal? It's only an hour change... Am I missing something here? Personally I love those longer evenings, but maybe it's different in New Zealand.
Kae: Hey there! It's perfectly okay to "out" yourself as the Opie. Some Opies prefer to remain anonymous, especially if the question could get them into trouble if seen by their agent/publisher/mother. Thanks for asking the question. This is a great way for us all to learn. :)
Kate: I don't think it's the added daylight people grumble about. It's the actual messing with the clocks meaning that you lose an hour of sleep in March (people complain less about gaining an hour of sleep in October/November). Why not set it to one time, they say, and leave it alone? Especially these days when so much of our society depends less on how many days of sunlight there are. Anyway, that's wayyy off topic. :)
Hi Kae! Thanks for asking the question - publishing is a really confusing business, and you're helping us all out by asking questions. :)
I'm glad self-publishing was so rewarding! I'd recommend reading through Janet's older posts (and query shark) for more info on how to query your next story if you've self-pubbed before, in case you want to try traditional publishing for your next novel. But it sounds like you really loved self-publishing, so you might choose to do it again! Either way, congrats on having the courage to get your work out there. :)
Thanks for the typo notices.
I was working on this up to the last minute, and of course
forgot to run spell czech after the last edit.
Maybe if I WAS a robot, my spelling improve.
Kae, checked out the sample on Amazon.
I love prologues, (prologue is a four letter word to some around here), yours is great.
Started the rest. Heart pounding. Buying the book.
Original poster, congratulations on having a finished novel and welcome. I'm not sure who's mixing drinks these days, but there seems to be no shortage of them. I'm in charge of sweet tea and pecan sticky buns.
Miss Janet has the right of it. It's going to be hard to get an agent interested in a self published book if it doesn't have remarkable sales. Your best bet might be to try to piggy back off some of the movie's notoriety.
Jason, there's always a new way to tell a story. Greek mythology has certainly been "done to death", but Riordan found a new way to tell it with Percy Jackson.
A friend broke all the rule with her epic high fantasy. It wasn't finished. It's faaaaar beyond acceptable word count. She queried two very successful NY agents and got offers from both. It's all in the story. Have faith in your writing and charge ahead.
Carolynnwith2ns -Thank you very VERY kindly. I now owe you a Venti cup of coffee and/or a drink of top shelf, your choice, if ever we meet at a conference. Because.
The book is (Gasp) free on smashwords, if anyone else wishes to take a gander. I know, I know. Wrong, wrong and more wrong. I am an experiential learner. I mix it up. It's what got me to Cambodia in the first place.
Welcome, Kae - it's nice to have a name to go with the post, though not at all necessary. Swimming in these waters not only helps us learn, it connects us with each other, and it helps us woodland creatures find our way. When I first found this blog, I never could figure out what woodland creatures were doing in the ocean, but I think that's the point. Here at the Reef, the Shark teaches woodland creatures to swim.
Welcome, Kae, and thanks for sharing your experience with us.
I, too, have had a meandering story. It kept wandering off, until I cornered it in the pasture, where it turned into Jason's racing cow and I haven't seen it since.
Let's face it, we've all been there, either sitting in the dark with your popcorn, or flicking through the new releases in the press, they've just made the story I've working on for eight months into film. I bet it's been more than just the once too, I'm not sure what the standard reaction is but here it's a case of cleanse everything with fire, eradicate all trace in the hope I can forget about the case of inverse serendipity, then start again.
Hi DeadSpiderEye, Just to clarify, Angelina's movie is a film of the Memoir of a young girl who survived the Khmer Rouge in the 70s, tough she lost her entire family.
In contrast, my work is a set-in-the-present-day (what I meant by 'current' in the Original Post) suspense story that looks at What if the Khmer Rouge came back RIGHT NOW. Without going deeply into politics, there are comparisons today being made between a certain US politician and another non-US politician/monster from long ago. My book is like that. Angie's movie is mostly in the 70's. Mine looks at Cambodia today: Thriving, successful, moving forward. Then boom.
Kae Bell:
So it's available on Amazon then?
Yes, but FREE on www.Smashwords.com
Hi Kae,
Welcome, and I'm glad you felt comfortable identifying yourself as Opie. It's always interesting to learn more about the background of the question.
I'm jumping on the bandwagon cranked up by Colin--since the book is already out there, go ahead and market it. Use whatever tie-in you can to the movie. See what you can do to promote it on other blogs. Sounds like you want people to read it as much or more than you want to make money off it, so you can learn about marketing the novel as you go. As long as you're polite and professional, you probably can't hurt anything! (I don't think. But I could be wrong.)
Not much to add, Kae, except a big welcome to the Reider pool =)
Thanks for the explanation of what DST is, Colin. Had me scratching my head (although I should have worked that one out). Does yours click over on a Monday? In Oz the clocks always gain/lose time in the early hours of a Sunday morning. And it's always the first weekend in April (lose), first weekend of October (gain).
I know, OT, but I'm always fascinated about these little differences across the waves in things I take for granted.
Gentle Opie, Kae Bell. Fret not that you've stuck a book up on Smashy for free. Nothing wrong with that. I think I'll do the same soon. I'll call it my 'permafree'
For my second one, I'm charging $3.99 and I expect people to pay me that one.
What are your plans for your second book? I can smell it in your words.
Bethany Elizabeth asked, Do you HAVE to have two novels ready-to-go before you query for one?
No.
But if you query one until you hit the end of all agents, then what?
Every novel has a beginning. Every novel has an ending, whether it's being abandoned after chapter three, finished but doomed forever to the trunk, self-published or published by some Random Penguin to great acclaim.
Regardless of its fate, eventually you hit the end of the novel. Then what?
Unless you're willing to quit your writing career forever, you write another novel.
We write bad novels. We write practice novels. We write good novels and we write great novels. I've written novels that will never see the light of day. I've written novels I've apologised to the world for having written, they're so bad. But I've written (IMHO) good novels and I believe I've even written great novels.
When I initially queried my first novel, the query process took so long, by the time I realised no agent was going to pick it up, I had written another novel and was halfway through yet another.
A truly thorough query process takes a long time. It does our career and our mental health no good not to be writing a novel while we wait. A career novelist, even an apprentice one, will not stop at just one book.
Don't worry if you've only got one novel worth querying at the moment. If you do your querying properly, by the time you're through (whichever way the muses determine its fate), you will have written that "second" novel (or twenty-second novel).
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Western Australians are too sensible to practice DST. We gave it a try for a few years, realised just how ridiculous it was, and went back to normal.
Her Grace, I've Queensland blood in me (we tried it for 1 year and realised how naff it was). The Hub has told me moaning about it won't make it go away but I live in hope.
From one Kae to another, welcome! It's lovely to have two of us swimming around these waters! And as others have said, stick around; it's the best education I've ever had :)
Her Grace: Am I so obvious? It appears so. The second book is in the editing phase at the moment, done enough to smooth the edges. It led me to this site: I started queryingon book 2 (prematurely), got a couple rejections, and decided perhaps I should learn a bit more so as not to repeat EVERY mistake I made last year. Another suspense story, not set in Cambodia, more a global scale, starts in USA. Although meant to be a sequel to my first, the ms perhaps would be better received if a standalone novel. Still not clear if I should query a sequel to the self-published freebie. So much to learn.
Also, when I say first' about self-pubbed, bit of a misnomer. From what I read here, we all have the stories that never see light of day. I wrote a first novel, boring as could be (too autobiographical). But it had one interesting character that appeared halfway through. I scrapped that novel and wrote another based on the interesting character.
Kae, I paid, so my opinion means more...right :)
AJ: We change our clocks early Sunday morning, too (usually 2 am, which becomes 1 am or 3 am depending).
Carolynnwith2Ns: Absolutely! Sorry I didn't catch you in time!
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