tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post4822283923063411371..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: Is it insensitive to use my non-white sounding name, when I am white?Janet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-48617490921538953612016-01-07T17:47:17.296-05:002016-01-07T17:47:17.296-05:00I'm going to close the comments for this blog ...I'm going to close the comments for this blog post because I've kept a close eye on it so things wouldn't get out of hand and it's now time to work on tomorrow's post. (And things didn't get out of hand which is I think a testimony to the amazing community y'all have formed here, and I thank you for it)<br /><br />please allow me the final comment (but certainly not the last word) on the topic of white privilege.<br /><br />Within living memory, young black men were killed by armed groups of adult white men for what I will loosely call "color transgressions."<br /><br />If you doubt this, read the story of Emmett Till. Or simply google the history of lynching. <br /><br />Poor white folk didn't worry about lynch mobs. They didn't need to. That's white privilege in a nutshell.<br /><br />If you think being poor and black is the same thing as being<br />poor and white, read<a href="http://www.gilbertking.com/DevilInTheGrove.html" rel="nofollow"> Devil in Grove</a> by Gilbert King, a book that made me weep more than once.<br><br /><br />Of course there was and is violence against white folks, but it generally didn't start in the sheriff's department. Nor did it continue in the courthouse. <br /><br />We each have our own experiences, and they give us a world view. That it's not everyone's world view is something we all come to realize as we grow up. <br /><br />I lived in Seattle, a town that had a solid middle class black population and even though black kids went to my school, had the same teachers, stopped for after school candy at the same drugstore, my experience was not the experience of the black kids who lived across the street.<br /><br />Nathan McCall's wonderful book <a href="http://nathanmccall.net/books/" rel="nofollow">Makes Me WannaHoller</a> showed me that.<br /><br /><br />Dorothy Allison's stunning novel <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_out_of_Carolina" rel="nofollow">Bastard Out ofCarolina </a>made me understand a lot too.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.chitradivakaruni.com/books/" rel="nofollow">Chitra Divakaruni's</a> novels pened my eyes.<br /><br /><br />I would like to make sure that these kinds of compelling eye opening books continue to be published. <br /><br />There will be more to say in the Week in Review, but for now, time to go back to reading queries. And ya'll, time to go back to writing novels!<br /><br /><br />Janet Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-6376008610884291552016-01-07T17:11:38.713-05:002016-01-07T17:11:38.713-05:00Carolynn: If I may, I'd suggest just writing y...Carolynn: If I may, I'd suggest just writing your story first. As Angie said in her first comment, we can become so overly concerned that it stifles our creativity and interferes with the storytelling and writing. Get the story out into a draft form, then consider sending it to a beta-reader who would represent your characters and ask if they could provide some feedback based on their own experiences. Good luck!<br /><br />Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05332570278984058081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-15464981932532763132016-01-07T16:53:14.219-05:002016-01-07T16:53:14.219-05:00To DLM: Authors. And I think authors write what th...To DLM: Authors. And I think authors write what they know so even my favorite author wrote very flat, other-ing non-White characters because he came from the English aristocracy. I think it's a struggle that many POC writers have--how to balance their affection and admiration for writers who don't seem to know or care about their experience. <br />As writers, we are called upon to be empathetic, investigating and mining human experience for some common string yet a lot of White authors just miss the mark. --https://www.blogger.com/profile/06884237801649384103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-10587397701744027402016-01-07T16:52:47.969-05:002016-01-07T16:52:47.969-05:00Okay, I'm jumping in. I have not been able to ...Okay, I'm jumping in. I have not been able to read all the comments yet and I'm sure this is going to sound, well weird, or something, but in my WIP I want to add PoC but I am afraid to.<br /> <br />What the hell do I know about what it's like to be a PoC. Oh I can read about it, do research, blah, blah, blah, but I don't have a clue of what goes on in the mind of a man or a woman born to a race other than my own. We all share many life passages but our experiences can be very different. <br /><br />I know what it's like to be spit on as an American in a foreign country but not by a fellow citizen in my own country, because I look, talk and have an ethic history different from the so-called majority. Have I as a woman experienced prejudice, hell yes but that is very different.<br /><br />I am so afraid of getting it wrong, of offending, of coming off as someone other than someone with good intentions that I have, so far, left PoC out of my novel. Problem is, because of the socio-economic-situation of my characters, PoC should be included but if I do, just that assumption may be way off. I'm digging a hole here so I am going to stop. <br /><br />Carolynnwith2Nshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394998702410764388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-3132332282267282952016-01-07T16:47:35.583-05:002016-01-07T16:47:35.583-05:00A long time ago I worked in the Twin cities with a...A long time ago I worked in the Twin cities with a very diverse group. Not only did we have all sorts of colors, we also had limited physical abilities - we were quite a bunch. I lived in a rural area and commuted daily 45 minutes each way. In the small farming community where I lived, it was not so diverse.<br /><br />The holidays came up. Being friends with my daughter's second-grade teacher, I asked if she would like me to ask one of my friends if they could do a Kwanzaa talk as the class was covering different celebrations in their curriculum. She was excited and said yes. <br /><br />Richard came into town, and we went to school. Richard brought his drums, the items to celebrate family, community, Kwanzaa etc. He played music, described how they celebrate, and the kids LOVED it. Richard then opened up the floor for questions. The kids were intrigued, asking questions about the drumming, foods etc. And then one little boy, Robert, raised his hand.<br /><br />"Yes?" asked Richard. <br /><br />"Are you...are you a black man?"<br /><br />Richard paused. "Yes, Yes I am," he said, smiling.<br /><br />"Oh, okay!" <br /><br />And the kids continued to ask questions about the gifts, the outfit he wore etc.<br /><br />This was in 1995, rural Wisconsin, only 45 minutes from the Twin Cities. Goodness knows what Robert had heard about Black men, but that day he met someone who had explained his culture and left a beautiful memory.<br /><br />Richard, recognizing the need, went on to apply for grants, and became an educational speaker for the Minneapolis Area. I went on to get divorced, remarried, and become a writing Timber Cruiser.<br /><br />It can work, but only if we open our hearts and minds, and share, and understand there is a need to do this.<br /><br />AS Colin said, "And, as writers, if WE can understand, then we are exceptionally well-positioned through our work to help others."<br /><br /><br />Back to the topic at hand - Initials. J.K. Rowling did okay.<br /><br /><br />Janice Grinyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14363741660626407979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-69140854762992955912016-01-07T16:42:53.685-05:002016-01-07T16:42:53.685-05:00DLM: Yes indeed, I do have to do a lot of explaini...DLM: Yes indeed, I do have to do a lot of explaining about being Persian (vs. being Iranian). The distinction between cultural heritage and national heritage is a difficult one to parse.<br /><br />Lucie: I love your example of the book store. I may have to borrow it from time to time!<br /><br />At this point I think we're all going to Carkoon. I'm reminded of <i>The Great Muppet Caper</i> when, after making their plans to foil a jewel heist, the fold-down bed the Muppets are using as a desk suddenly springs back into the wall, leaving them all trapped. And then Kermit asks (from between the bed and the wall), "Can somebody turn out the lights?" And the light bulb falls out of the ceiling.Adib Khorramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836332867898941638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-41642607764778917902016-01-07T16:36:43.255-05:002016-01-07T16:36:43.255-05:00As a follow up to my first post, I want to thank e...As a follow up to my first post, I want to thank everyone who took the time to read my comment, to post about it, and to discuss it. Thank you, you give me hope for humanity :)<br /><br />With regards to white privilege: for those who grew up in poverty and feel like their whiteness conferred nothing, I completely understand your frustration. I am so sorry about the struggles you underwent. I do hope that you can read the stories of racial minorities, however, and acknowledge that their skin color has made life more difficult for them. <br /><br />I am not white or male. However, in other areas of my life, I am VERY privileged: I'm straight, cis, and grew up in the 1%. I acknowledge these privileges, but that doesn't make all the crap I get for being not-white or a woman go away (it just means I didn't get the other crap too). <br /><br />This isn't about creating or maintaining victimhood. This is about saying, "There are invisible but real forces in this country working against people for being not white, and especially for being black, and we should acknowledge them so that we can stop them." <br /><br />Acknowledging one's privilege and that other people do NOT have that same privilege means that we can make real change. NOT acknowledging difference--saying that you are "colorblind"--is, in fact, counterproductive, because that does not acknowledge the very real differences in the lived experiences between different groups of people. <br /><br />I never need to worry about money, but I am in favor of universal healthcare and higher minimum wage because I know that not everyone was born with my staggering good luck. I am not LGBTQ, but I believe that they deserve all the same rights to marry and be who they really are. I am not black, but I am pro-affirmative action and pro Black Lives Matter. Lifting other people up only lifts everyone up. Getting ahead is not a zero sum game. (And yes, I know I'm getting away from the original subject to some pretty big/broad topics, but I just wanted to address some misconceptions about white privilege.)<br /><br />E. M. Goldsmith, I hope you take this the right way: I am very much Team Your Daughter and think that she sounds wonderful and articulate and very aware, and you should be proud of her :)<br /><br />Having well exceeded my word limit, I'm going to go sit in a corner and think about what I've done. Again, thank you to everyone for reading and responding! For people who are interested in reading the voices of minorities when it comes to privilege, I'm a big fan of Black Girl Dangerous. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-82873666873001326362016-01-07T16:32:18.022-05:002016-01-07T16:32:18.022-05:00tell me later: A pen name is not an identity. It&#...tell me later: A pen name is not an identity. It's simply the way you put yourself forward for others to see. Yes, sometimes others will make assumptions based on that name, but that's still not an identity.<br /><br />In writing a bio, stick to the facts of your own past. If you don't want people to know your past, then don't tell them what you don't want them to know. There is so little space in a bio (even if it's a page or two) that you can't cover absolutely everything.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-49770351875547450932016-01-07T16:19:30.692-05:002016-01-07T16:19:30.692-05:00E.M.,
I'm cracking up about your convo with yo...E.M.,<br />I'm cracking up about your convo with your daughter. Thinking how many of my students have told me: "So I got into a big debate with my parents after class. ..."<br /><br />I do think it's important to name things and acknowledge them. An example I use with my students in my motherhood and the law class to explain privilege is children's picture books. If you aren't a dinosaur family or a white family you can't always walk in a bookstore or library and find books with families that look like yours. If you can find not just one easily, but dozens, that's a privilege. <br /><br />If you're catching a late flight to exile, I'll ride with you. Lucie Witthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08521285162656949602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-32136841384973970732016-01-07T16:16:27.101-05:002016-01-07T16:16:27.101-05:00tell me later: I've so blown the comment rules...tell me later: I've so blown the comment rules today that I'm sure a return trip to Carkoon is in my near future, but here's my 2c. No, no, never, ever lie in your bio. Better to say nothing than an untruth. Especially if it's to do with a career or ethnicity that you think might help sell your novel. These things have a habit of backfiring on you. Or as the Bible puts it, "Your sins will find you out." :)<br /><br />Now, I'm not the agent here, so that's just my opinion, for what it's worth.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54816173116076934512016-01-07T16:11:02.255-05:002016-01-07T16:11:02.255-05:00I guess I should pack my bags for my inevitable ex...I guess I should pack my bags for my inevitable exile. Really fascinating topic. Last comment, I promise.<br /><br />My daughter took an African American studies class and we ended up in a fierce debate about white privelege. As a very young single mom, I felt no privelege at all despite being white. My daughter explained that economics had little to do with the concept. She said it had to do with the thousands of things a white person never had to confront in this country. People are not color blind, no matter how hard they try. <br /><br />I worry though that this concept simply continues these arbitrary, shallow rifts that divide us. I want to love my fellow man. I want to understand otherness, not so we can be the same but so we can benefit from each other's experience. I am sick of all the trifling little slings and arrows that divide us and cause us to hate. What good does that do? Affixing the blame fixes nothing. E.M. Goldsmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387494005655553037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-67039105672652333362016-01-07T16:05:53.393-05:002016-01-07T16:05:53.393-05:00About pen names:
On another site, a while ago, th...About pen names:<br /><br />On another site, a while ago, there was a thread similar to this one. The OP wondered how they'd deal with an author bio for a pen name. Like, would it be okay to say "Jonathan Doe lives in New York with his two sons and a dog" when the author is really Mary-Ann Winters, who lives in Texas and has no pets?<br /><br />...okay, so that's kind of a lame example, but the question was about the limits when talking about a pen name's life. Is it okay to claim military service? A college degree? An ethnicity, orientation?<br /><br />I'm thinking of using my mom's maiden name as a pen name, myself, with a vague bio. I'm a mixed-race with a white birth name, so I'm currently going through something of an angsty phase where neither surname feels exactly right. Oh, well.Noel (tell me now)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12044704621194378487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-52058374599928816332016-01-07T15:46:57.249-05:002016-01-07T15:46:57.249-05:00I love the name Almitra. It's different and re...I love the name Almitra. It's different and resonates with me. I did not, for myself, think of it as proprietary to one group or another. I don't think you have anything to worry about as far as name goes. It is simply lovely. <br /><br />To Julie, you are correct. And I understand your frustration. The politics of "white privelege" does no one any favors. Human suffering is universal and spares no one regardless if the tone of your skin (tiny gene in the genome that makes you who you are) happens to reflect a majority in your little corner of the world. Suffering is fully diverse and without prejudice or reason. No person or people have a monopoly on it. <br /><br />It is a quite a gift to us readers that you are willing to write and pour yourself out into story so that others feel less alone in their trials and tribulations. That is the gift writers bring when they turn their pain to story whether in fiction or not. <br /><br /> I really don't get this odd trend of people screaming to be acknowledged as forever victims. Anne Frank doesn't resonate because she whined and cried about how unfair her horrific situation was. It resonates because she didn't. She saw light in the blackest of corners, and in doing so, opens the Pandora's box of hope amid the chaos. <br /><br />If you happen to be of a minority background, tell your story, the one you want to tell and then pound the proverbial pavement of querying and pitching. Remember, no one else can tell your story the way you do because your voice belongs only to you. A great voice will win out in the end because a well told tale transcends our differences and recalls our humanity. And that wins an audience. <br /><br />E.M. Goldsmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387494005655553037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-18361080299340694172016-01-07T15:46:05.381-05:002016-01-07T15:46:05.381-05:00Just as diversity isn't all about ethnicity/na...Just as diversity isn't all about ethnicity/nationality/color/religion, privilege isn't exclusive to whites. My own privileges start with my parents - they happen to have been white, but they also both were intelligent, and my father highly educated. The very time I was born has conferred privileges to me - I have lived a life better off than 99.999% of all humans who ever lived, and I'm not even what most Americans at least would call "wealthy". I am privileged to have a facility with language, to know some of the right people to have gotten me good jobs more than once, to have been attractive enough in my youth that I was preferred in certain situations where my own intrinsic value was debatable.<br /><br />I use the term privilege unmodified, though I do discuss my whiteness as part of that, when I am taking myself to account.DLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08768285199864217885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-88915085802222701502016-01-07T15:44:26.827-05:002016-01-07T15:44:26.827-05:00Lucie: Please share links. To Janice's questio...Lucie: Please share links. To Janice's question, we need the humility to accept that we ALL are prejudiced to some extent, and we need to be open to hear other people's perceptions about us. Those perceptions may be wrong, but that doesn't mean they're invalid. If we start out assuming we understand why black people are mad at white people, or why white people are frustrated with black people, the discussion goes in circles and never moves forward. Humility. Understanding. Dialog--even debate. This is the stuff of Education, Enrichment, and a better co-existence.<br /><br />And, as writers, if WE can understand, then we are exceptionally well-positioned though our work to help others.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-22699503889614859332016-01-07T15:35:47.980-05:002016-01-07T15:35:47.980-05:00White privilege to me means that certain people/gr...White privilege to me means that certain people/groups make decisions based on what you look like, and give special treatment to those who have light skin. A caste system.<br /><br />And yes, it exists all over the world. To pretend it doesn't at all levels i.e. government, social, economical does a disservice to humanity. <br /><br />How to solve inequality?<br /><br />Raise your children, teach others, stand up and speak out that we all have dreams, desires, and we all bleed red. We are all equal. <br /><br />And it starts with us, today.Janice Grinyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14363741660626407979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-2461968044898343332016-01-07T15:35:41.970-05:002016-01-07T15:35:41.970-05:00Im also a white woman who grew up dirt poor in Ken...Im also a white woman who grew up dirt poor in Kentucky, for what it's worth. Lucie Witthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08521285162656949602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-33098659351741149082016-01-07T15:33:54.226-05:002016-01-07T15:33:54.226-05:00Colin,
I'm actually a professor in a gender s...Colin,<br /><br />I'm actually a professor in a gender studies department where I teach classes on gender, race and the legal system (and yes, white privilege). Your understanding is pretty on point. White privilege doesn't mean you're immune from things like poverty, not at all. If you'd like I can send you links to some of my favorite readings on the topic. I've already over commented today (need to pack my bags for exile), and hesitant to get to academic here. But teaching about this is my other passion, and I'm happy to share more if interested. Lucie Witthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08521285162656949602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-6058786332864187862016-01-07T15:33:18.566-05:002016-01-07T15:33:18.566-05:00Thank you to folks who have shared from their pers...Thank you to folks who have shared from their personal experience, especially Gimme. Debate is important, but it often means laying your life out time after time for other people to examine. It can be wearying.<br /><br />Cheers, everyone.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00331026594971237758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-66618039921557735162016-01-07T15:30:19.966-05:002016-01-07T15:30:19.966-05:00Well, now I just can't shut up. Why?
Becaus...Well, now I just can't shut up. Why? <br /><br />Because. Julie. <br /><br />I didn't have the nerve to speak up the way she did about the term "white privilege" but I was sure thinking about what I wanted to say when it came up.<br /><br />My own story is not dissimilar from Julie's. What did I hear when I was growing up more than I care to admit? "We can't afford it, we're poor." And poor we were. Speaking of beans, we ate "Chuckwagon Beans" every time I turned around - three times a week at least. Mom knew how to cook stick to your ribs, cheap meals.<br /><br />I started working at 11. Babysitting. Then a "real" job at 15. I had to have a "workers permit," b/c I was underage. I left home at 18. Married at 19, two kids by 23. Divorced by 26. Lived in a trailer for over a decade, where my credit went all to hell b/c ex wouldn't pay child support. Each month I chose trailer payment, or car payment. Which is it. Skipped many, many meals so kids would have enough hot dogs and mac and cheese to eat. <br /><br />I went to buy their Christmas presents one year, and had to submit to the humiliation of trying to run a credit card I knew was over the limit. Back went all those gifts. I had to borrow $50 (!) from a friend just to buy Christmas that year. And they were happy - because they never had much to begin with.<br /><br />And there's more, but you get the gist why some white people would get riled up at the term white privilege. Not many from where I come from were born with the proverbial silver spoon. <br />Donnaevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09026536210749494257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-3881207220401133442016-01-07T15:27:51.896-05:002016-01-07T15:27:51.896-05:00Damn, I have to weigh in again (fourth time, break...Damn, I have to weigh in again (fourth time, breaking another of the comment guidelines.) Maybe white privilege is a terrible term. Maybe in some situations/sub societies in the US it doesn’t exist. The US military comes to mind. But in most cases, and I suppose we should caveat this with on average, a person is relatively better off white than that person would be, if, all other factors being equal, not white. This is documented over and over again by anecdotal evidence, surveys, census data, and scientific studies. Doesn’t mean there aren’t individual exceptions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02694333358894726440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-72537270124274874062016-01-07T15:16:01.136-05:002016-01-07T15:16:01.136-05:00Julie: I understand your thinking with regard to &...Julie: I understand your thinking with regard to "white privilege"--but do non-white people use that term strictly in socio-economic terms? That's a genuine question. As I understand it, the concept of "white privilege" is the undeniable fact that if you are white (especially a white male) in the US, you are able to conduct your life with less hindrances and roadblocks, and less need for government assistance, than if you are of another racial group. Am I way off here?<br /><br />Personally, I would love for those who feel the rub of "white privilege" to comment. Tell us what that means to you. I think there are many white people who don't understand how anyone can think all white people are privileged, when clearly there are many who suffer all kinds of deprivation every day. So, "white privilege" must mean something deeper.<br /><br />This may not be directly relevant to the topic, but it is INTENSELY relevant to all of us as writers. If we're to write with authenticity, we need to understand those who are not like us.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-78494046266026566692016-01-07T15:10:28.061-05:002016-01-07T15:10:28.061-05:00Almitra,
I looked it up in baby names. It lists i...Almitra,<br /><br />I looked it up in baby names. It lists it as of eastern Indian origination.<br /><br />Julie Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-28459925990157374282016-01-07T15:07:20.777-05:002016-01-07T15:07:20.777-05:00Hello Julie M. Weathers. Thank you for sharing you...Hello Julie M. Weathers. Thank you for sharing your story. <br /><br />The name Almitra originates in Kahlil Gibran's poem "The Prophet," published in 1923. The poem is set in a fictional land and features a fictional religion and culture. Gibran himself was Lebanese-American. I think you may have confused the name Almitra with Mitra, an Indian deity.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01488697356459881105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-8780475878673653912016-01-07T14:48:35.220-05:002016-01-07T14:48:35.220-05:00Julie: {{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} Only becaus...Julie: {{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} Only because I truly know how you feel. nightsmusichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05984119792540771870noreply@blogger.com