tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post3243872344172793556..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: Contract question: speaking of indentured servitude, run of copyright contractsJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-59528371787732137392015-07-01T10:46:20.490-04:002015-07-01T10:46:20.490-04:00Angie:
The term 'Indies' can mean two thi...Angie:<br /><br />The term 'Indies' can mean two things. In the past, 'independent publisher' or 'indie publisher' has meant a small publisher, or a publisher not part of a larger publisher. However, self-publishers have started calling themselves 'independent publishers' or 'indie publishers', too. 'Tis a bit confuddling.<br /><br />Self-publishing is when a person creates their own book - either e-book or print - outside of an actual publisher. They can go through electronic publishing platforms like Amazon or others, or they can go through other large or small businesses who provide these services. They can pay to have their books printed at a printer. They can create only e-books, if they prefer, and use Amazon's e-book self-publishing service or Lulu or any other such service. Some services (I think Lulu does) offer e-book formatting, but also print-on-demand (that is, getting books printed when someone wants them).<br /><br />That's why I say self-publishers need to really research all these services, so they know what they're doing, what they can do, what they have to do, what things cost, and make all that work with what they *want* to do.<br /><br />Thanks, K. A very good distinction to be made.<br /><br />Liz: A smart move. In the past (more than ten years ago), contracts didn't include electronic books. I understand there are authors who signed those rights away without knowing they would someday exist. I also understand some publishers decided they owned those rights, even though they weren't mentioned in the contract. Lots of legal ambiguity going on there. It's good to remember that e-books have a different 'shelf life' than print books.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-65511069845491727972015-07-01T09:38:04.693-04:002015-07-01T09:38:04.693-04:00I turned down a contract because there was no numb...I turned down a contract because there was no number (copies or sales) for the out of print e-book version. Something to watch out for. If they sell one per year or just have it available, you can't get it back. But many authors are now making good money from their backlist. Something to be aware of.Liz Penneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13616005136130181910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-16133061726899472492015-07-01T08:09:23.050-04:002015-07-01T08:09:23.050-04:00Perhaps this has already been addressed, but I thi...Perhaps this has already been addressed, but I think it bears noting that there is a difference between owning the work and owning the <i>right to publish</i> said work. <br /><br />The question says: "They claim that publishers will <b>own an author's work</b> until the copyright runs out." <br /><br />But as the Great Sharkess points out in the text from the Writer's Union: "<br />The customary practice in the United States is to allow the primary publisher to retain exclusive <b>publishing rights</b> for the duration of the work's copyright term."<br /><br />The author continues to own the actual right to their work. They may not be allowed to license it to someone else, but they still own it. I realize that from a practical standpoint, this may seem like the same thing since the author's hands are in a sense tied. But it is an important distinction.Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00543334704879531796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-19567780480272249102015-07-01T01:52:04.584-04:002015-07-01T01:52:04.584-04:00KD, thank you for explaining this. I'm not su...KD, thank you for explaining this. I'm not surprised Amazon tracks pages read. What bothers me is the decision to arbitrarily change the terms and conditions. <br /><br />Does this apply to works loaded onto their system after the change takes place, July 1st? Or does it apply to all works in the program, even the ones which were uploaded prior. <br /><br />This is may be the last comment because it's morning here and most of you just went to bed.<br /><br />Can someone define what is considered self-publishing? The vanity press, ok , Amazon, ok. Why are indies part of it?<br /><br /><(°v°)><br /><br />I'm the fool who asks the stupid question others may want answered but are afraid to ask. <br /><br />I agree with you Diane about AW. I signed up and tried to post enough to be able to start a thread. It's a bit toxic. <br /><br />angie Brooksby-Arcangiolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000615140577512304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-26321126033152117732015-06-30T21:46:48.177-04:002015-06-30T21:46:48.177-04:00Speaking of traditional publishing, a position jus...Speaking of traditional publishing, a position just opened up for an engraver at one of the presses here on Carkoon. Apparently, their previous engraver misspelled the author's name on his last book. Most Carkoonian authors wouldn't be too upset (heck, most of them can't spell their own names), but this one breathes fire and has just come off of a rather messy divorce.<br /><br />Anyway, if you're good with a chisel and have a thick skin, let me know and I'll see if we can get a visa for you. Or you can just annoy Janet enough to be exiled... :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-89954947803740560112015-06-30T21:05:30.009-04:002015-06-30T21:05:30.009-04:00Diane- I'm with you on AW. I use it occasional...Diane- I'm with you on AW. I use it occasionally, but I don't like to stay there too long. Lots of nastiness and useless crabbiness. It can occasionally be very very funny, though :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-78807983491261954522015-06-30T20:30:19.188-04:002015-06-30T20:30:19.188-04:00Julie, thank you. I can't really bear AW for l...Julie, thank you. I can't really bear AW for long; it's such a contentious forum. For what it has to offer, it's not worth the agita: so I'm judging just on my own feelings. I'm not married to it, but I can see the utility of the choice, so I'll probably use it. At least, when I remember!DLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08768285199864217885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-21919880271279205532015-06-30T20:20:32.052-04:002015-06-30T20:20:32.052-04:00I am so glad this question was answered. The blog ...I am so glad this question was answered. The blog post being referenced popped up in my critique group today and here I had the rebuttal link all ready to go. <br /><br />Reading both posts only solidified my desire to pursue traditional publishing. I decided to pursue a career in publishing because I enjoy writing. Navigating complicated legal labyrinths falls solidly into the category of "thing I do not enjoy".Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12797621675670255704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-52263996554238920532015-06-30T20:01:43.706-04:002015-06-30T20:01:43.706-04:00This is off topic (nothing to add on that front) a...This is off topic (nothing to add on that front) and more in response to some of the comments: <br /><br />I have no complaints about my experience self-publishing with Amazon. It's pretty much exactly what they say it will be in their fine print. But they aren't a publisher. They're a distributor. Big difference. Now, they DO have several imprints (47 North is the only one I can think of, off the top of my head) and if you sign a publishing contract with one of those imprints, then Amazon IS your publisher. I've heard good things from writers who've gone that route and who seem especially pleased with Amazon's marketing efforts. So, yes, self-publishing is the correct term for what the majority of writers do over there.<br /><br />From what I've read (skimmed, really), the recent change to how writers are paid under the lending program was in response to writers who published "ebooks" that were only 10 pages long, or who had a book with maybe 25 chapters and they published each chapter separately. The old formula (I think) said that if someone read 10 percent of an ebook they <b>borrowed</b>, the author got paid $XX. Hence, writers were being paid the same amount if a borrower read 1/10 pages or 30/300 pages. Since this money came out of a set pool <i>contributed by Amazon</i>, many writers were a wee bit irritated that some people were gaming the system by publishing such ridiculously short "books." So now Amazon is counting pages instead. This only applies to books that are borrowed under a program in which participation is completely voluntary for writers. It has nothing to do with books that are <b>purchased</b>.<br /><br />Hope that clarifies things for some who were (perhaps) unclear. While I do very much appreciate having another option, I don't have any particularly warm and fuzzy feelings for Amazon, nor do I expect to have any for traditional publishers I might deal with. It's a business. They're all in it to make money. You need to expect them ALL to be a bit ruthless in pursuing that goal, and be cautious when their goals sometimes, inevitably, don't align with yours.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-51606549534830543822015-06-30T19:59:58.679-04:002015-06-30T19:59:58.679-04:00Diane,
If you read the AW thread, people are admo...Diane,<br /><br />If you read the AW thread, people are admonished not to use traditional publishing because the mods don't like it. People are told to use trade publishing. That's what I was referring to.<br /><br />JulieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-800876591323408812015-06-30T19:56:51.092-04:002015-06-30T19:56:51.092-04:00Julie, "traditional" doesn't offend ...Julie, "traditional" doesn't offend me, I just thought the word choice of trade seems a more precise description. If I took time to get offended by this sort of thing, I'd be the *fodder* for the questions we're getting lately, rather than reading here with a critical eye and trying to learn (rather than just assuming I am always right about all things).DLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08768285199864217885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-32777816291309698832015-06-30T18:46:28.187-04:002015-06-30T18:46:28.187-04:00Angie,
Many people are self publishing. There are...Angie,<br /><br />Many people are self publishing. There are a LOT of indie publishers besides Amazon. Some do a decent job. I have a friend who works very hard to put out a quality product for her clients. Others are snake oil salesmen vanity presses preying on the dreams of people who are willing to spend thousands to see their name on a book. <br /><br />I'm not saying I would never self publish, but I would certainly be researching these companies very closely and it wouldn't be with Amazon.<br /><br />I just get this "Can you skin griz?" feeling about publishing with them and I'm not sure I'm hoss enough.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-28808740314872125852015-06-30T18:19:58.663-04:002015-06-30T18:19:58.663-04:00"Seventy years from the author's death&qu..."Seventy years from the author's death" .. . That cracked me up. I could have heatstroke.<br /><br />@ S.D. King - From my inexperienced perspective,I tend to agree with going with a newbie agent - less of a slush pile, but maybe they don't have the knowledge an established agent would have. In my naivete, I'd assume the established agent would be kind and help out the newbie agent every step of the way. Koombay-yah (sp- I don't know, but looks good enough!)<br /><br />Happy Hour - Yes, please. Just enough energy left for that! Turtle power! Hmm, I feel like a strawberry margarita, two tequila shots on the side, please. Gracias.<br /><br />Ooh, I should mention that I'm coming to your lovely country for July 4 Independence Day! Gonna be a blast!Gingermollymarilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15684318210445109786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-2353604639541258122015-06-30T18:17:38.791-04:002015-06-30T18:17:38.791-04:0042 comments in and I'm sure I have nothing to ...42 comments in and I'm sure I have nothing to add. <br />Well maybe I do. <br />When I signed with a publisher, eons ago, (Mary mother of Jesus was lactating), the book was never published, (long sad story I won't go into now because some of you have already heard it and if I pour my heart out again about how stupid I was, I not only would be embarrassed but I'd cry myself to sleep tonight), so, after nine months, the publishing rights reverted back to me.<br />That's it, that's all I got.<br />Congrats DLM for being first. Five more in a row and you'll take the record. Carolynnwith2Nshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394998702410764388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-11964140572559903352015-06-30T18:16:27.811-04:002015-06-30T18:16:27.811-04:00Angie, while I'm not a huge fan of Amazon, tho...Angie, while I'm not a huge fan of Amazon, those royalties are for ebooks that are part of their Kindle Unlimited and their Lending Library programs. Authors whose books are part of these programs get percentages of royalties directly from Amazon (out of some arbitrary fund they set up) in exchange, because their books aren't actually being separately bought. And yes, Amazon has arbitrarily decided to change the royalties structure based on how much of a book is read. (The fact that they KNOW how much of a book is read is scary enough.)<br /><br />I don't agree with that, either. It's a terrible precedence and a slippery slope. But it seems some of their authors are happy about it (I still say that those are authors who assume everyone is reading their books all the way through.)<br /><br />But there are many ways to self-publish, and they don't all include using Amazon or other big business formats. Self-publishing can include print books as well as e-books. Anyone considering self-publishing needs to do a lot of careful research into what they can and can't do, and how to go about doing what they want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-62592203587515238632015-06-30T18:11:28.271-04:002015-06-30T18:11:28.271-04:00To be clear, I'm talking about the pros and co...<br />To be clear, I'm talking about the pros and cons of digital publishing versus trade publishing. Not only BJ's question in particular about reversion clauses.<br /><br />angie Brooksby-Arcangiolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000615140577512304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-2173676233767988182015-06-30T18:01:52.177-04:002015-06-30T18:01:52.177-04:00
I think there is a very large missing-peice of th...<br />I think there is a very large missing-peice of the puzzle in this argument. No one is self-publishing. They are publishing digitally via a big ass business called Amazon or Blogger or whatever. Recently I read that Amazon decided to pay author royalties by the number of pages read. Here is an entreprise that states they can change whatever they choose anytime. Take it or leave it. There is no room for negotiation. <br /><br />angie Brooksby-Arcangiolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000615140577512304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-77695441375047098632015-06-30T17:59:30.770-04:002015-06-30T17:59:30.770-04:00Thanks, Amy! I plan on staying ensconced in my hou...Thanks, Amy! I plan on staying ensconced in my house all day today (like I did yesterday and most of today), thanks to smoke coming in from the forest fires in the north.<br /><br />But I bought extra chocolate for tomorrow.<br /><br />(I tell myself it's for a celebration, as opposed to my normal chocolate habit, and I feel better about it.)<br /><br />It sounds like you're having a better Canada day than some of us in Canada! :)<br /><br />And the next time I'm in NYC, I'm going to see if I can take Ms Shark up on her invitation to Happy Hour. I'll even buy her a drink or three.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-48401802503721568582015-06-30T17:48:05.754-04:002015-06-30T17:48:05.754-04:00I have a special place in my heart (suddenly) for ...I have a special place in my heart (suddenly) for a person who takes things out of context.<br /><br />This was a 610-word post, yet all I got out of it was 7 words:<br /><br />"come to my office at Happy Hour."John Frainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01702305890462479118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-12306621634319042672015-06-30T17:40:10.155-04:002015-06-30T17:40:10.155-04:00Hey, thanks Amy! A lovely Canada Day to you too : ...Hey, thanks Amy! A lovely Canada Day to you too : )Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00331026594971237758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-76560845387721265142015-06-30T17:29:48.494-04:002015-06-30T17:29:48.494-04:00Thanks for clarifying the e-book/out-of-print issu...Thanks for clarifying the e-book/out-of-print issue. I'd never thought about that before. It is always nice to hear that smart people have already solved a problem I never knew existed.<br /><br />As for the I'm Right You're Wrong publishing wars, I would venture that some people only feel safe in their position when they are safely ensconced in a large group of other people who believe the very same thing. And that means trying to expand the group. The "to each his own" attitude so refreshingly present in these comments indicates a level of self-confidence and maturity that, sadly, many adults seem not to have attained. I wish them well on the hard road to growing up.<br /><br />Also, Happy Canada Day! I know I am few hours early from your perspective, but it is July 1st here already. The kids and I plan to make some cupcakes with red frosting, then I'll turn them out of the house to have a water fight with their friends. Good old school holidays.Amy Schaeferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263719891092841767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-32487750989712165432015-06-30T16:11:46.133-04:002015-06-30T16:11:46.133-04:00Oh, and to say: HELLO JULIE H!!! Welcome back!!!!!...Oh, and to say: HELLO JULIE H!!! Welcome back!!!!!! *big hugs* :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-62983755976797932492015-06-30T16:10:15.672-04:002015-06-30T16:10:15.672-04:00"No, I'm one of those people who insists ..."No, I'm one of those people who insists on having an agent so I don't have to deal with people like you."<br /><br />And everything else Julie said. Keep this up, my friend, and you'll be handing out signed comments for your adoring fans. (Me first!!)<br /><br />I've not commented much today partly because work is keeping me busy (a good thing considering it's work, and keeping one busy is kind of the definition of "work"), and I really don't have much to add to what's been said.<br /><br />I will say this: Carkoon really is that bad. You think being stuck with a bad agent is bad, or getting your legs tangled in the worst contract loophole is bad... Carkoon is worse. You don't want to come to Carkoon. It's an exile planet. Trust me. Behave yourselves! :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-23272836188563096872015-06-30T15:57:56.350-04:002015-06-30T15:57:56.350-04:00> Stop bashing the evil empire. Frankly when se...> <i>Stop bashing the evil empire. Frankly when self-pubbed people go on their rants about agents and publishing, it just turns me off and just makes me not want to buy their books.</i><br /><br />Beautifully put, Julie. Hmmmm… the Evil Empire… I like it. Think it'll catch on in Carkoon? Do they have evil empires there?<br /><br />Janet, you're soooo right not to listen to That Other Stuff. Especially when it's nasty. Sticks & Stones :-pBonnie Shaljeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13067442140631504611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-3280227108281804672015-06-30T15:46:28.511-04:002015-06-30T15:46:28.511-04:00I get to read all the posts for and against tradit...I get to read all the posts for and against traditional publishing. Now, apparently, you're not supposed to call it traditional publishing, it's trade publishing because the phrase "traditional" offends some people. Well, I'm about fed up to the gills with people looking for reasons to be offended so traditional publishing remains in my vocabulary.<br /><br />It's odd how many of the ones who rail against traditional publishing, our friend Newauth yesterday being a prime example. I don't want editors telling me what to do, I want to set my own prices, I want to market it the way I want to, I want complete control. Don't tell me my 800,000 word romance is too long! I'll show you! I'll self publish!<br /><br />Three books later and sales aren't that great. "I think I'm going to enter this contest and see if I can get an agent for my series."<br /><br />When the great god Pukuawana requires a virgin to stop the volcano, three sort of virgins won't work<br /><br />Lucy Lotsamour has to write a new vampire bodice sipper.<br /><br />I used to enter the twitter pitch contests, and still do occasionally. I invariably get lots of requests from small and indie publishers. One editor was pretty insistent and kept reminding me he was interested even after I had politely declined a few times. <br /><br />Finally, I said, "Thank you, but I'd rather go through an agent and publish traditionally."<br /><br />"Oh, you're one of those people who insists on holding a book in your hands regardless of what is best for your career."<br /><br />"No, I'm one of those people who insists on having an agent so I don't have to deal with people like you."<br /><br />I'm happy for people who do well with self publishing, but stop bashing those who don't want to. Stop bashing the evil empire. Frankly when self-pubbed people go on their rants about agents and publishing, it just turns me off and just makes me not want to buy their books, just as it irritates me when someone goes on about all people from Texas are _____ fill in the disparaging remark. This publishing world you're bashing is a world I very much want to be a part of. It's rude. Stop it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com