tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post7993125690440633612..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: More on category-the zombie topic!Janet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-76755688873453600012017-08-02T23:54:49.468-04:002017-08-02T23:54:49.468-04:00AS Janet Reid wrote in another lifetime:
well, a...AS Janet Reid wrote in another lifetime:<br /><br /><br />well, an upmarket title does not have 'hip' 'groovy' 'chick' 'love' 'fuck' or 'monkey' in the title.<br /><br />Upmarket voice is Emily Post and Miss Manners.<br />Downmarket voice is the Sweet Potato Queens Guide to Love<br /><br />Upmarket voice is Deborah Tannen's "You Just Don't Understand"<br />Down market is "He's Just Not That Into You"<br /><br />Upmarket is Fodors Guide to New York<br />Downmarket is NFT (Not For Tourists)<br /><br />Upmarket is Vogue<br />Downmarket is DailyCandy.com<br /><br />Upmarket is Writers Market Guide to Publishing<br />Downmarket is Miss SnarkJoseph S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07437663031050410028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-80688244580568499352017-08-02T18:57:20.812-04:002017-08-02T18:57:20.812-04:00Love JRs definitions. It explains exactly why I re...Love JRs definitions. It explains exactly why I read mostly commercial fiction. I love a beautifully turned sentence, but I don't need a whole book of them. Plot twists keep me reading. If a literary book has that I'll read it, but I've read some Aussie literary authors and struggle to keep turning the page (won't name the authors because I'd have to voluntarily move to Carkoon to escape the collective horror from my fellow Aussies). <br /><br /><b>Colin</b> and <b>Robert</b>, for me personally, I definitely set out to write commercial fiction. I hope my writing has some moments of stunning writing, and overall is incredibly well written, but I love commercial fiction so that's where I want to be on the shelf.AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43606390275553474162017-08-02T17:49:17.935-04:002017-08-02T17:49:17.935-04:00I think I just figured out what downmarket is. Fif...I think I just figured out what downmarket is. Fifty shits, that thing with the glowing vampires and moussed werewolves, and half of the crap sold in Wally world.<br /><br />Maybe even the stuff I write. I do it just for entertainment though I try to have some redeeming qualities in my characters.<br /><br />Correct me if I'm wrong, please.Craig Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07157301156577795781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-30343924792148487462017-08-02T17:30:36.199-04:002017-08-02T17:30:36.199-04:00I reached the same conclusion as Ms. Reid before g...I reached the same conclusion as Ms. Reid before getting to her comment. It might help to reword the answer, Your problem could be that you told the agent ABOUT the story instead of telling the story itself. There is a difference. Instead of describing the MC as bodacious, tell them what the MC DOES that is bodacious.<br /><br />And a question: I am intrigued about the possibility of driving writers nuts without being a literary agent. You say downmarket authors do that. Who are some "downmarket" authors we can study as role models?<br />Steve Stubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13421775912951050610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-76438967587242008482017-08-02T16:44:29.955-04:002017-08-02T16:44:29.955-04:00While I will grant that most of my favorite myster...While I will grant that most of my favorite mystery & crime writers are dead, they tended to define the genre and their books are still read today. While most of the short stories were plot driven, many of the novels were character driven.<br /><br />And they certainly tackled social issues, in a variety of ways from subtle to not so subtle (if not with the effect of a shot filled sock).<br />roadkills-r-ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14029861300358380117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-39691070868279377912017-08-02T14:56:01.526-04:002017-08-02T14:56:01.526-04:00Very interesting. I remember the last paragraph of...Very interesting. I remember the last paragraph of one of JL Burke's books about post-storm New Orleans. It was lyrical and mesmerizing. Downmarket? Commercial? <br /><br />Who cares. It was just plain wonderful.Margaret S. Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07979191318652199350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-38302648055286399422017-08-02T14:51:19.195-04:002017-08-02T14:51:19.195-04:00Speaking of Patrick Lee, any idea when we'll s...Speaking of Patrick Lee, any idea when we'll see a new book? He's one of those writers who blows me away every single time and I miss him!cncbookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09401170570062253185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-35687951707400732762017-08-02T14:31:46.239-04:002017-08-02T14:31:46.239-04:00China Mieville's The City and the City is a gr...China Mieville's The City and the City is a great example of literary crime fiction that deals with social issues (and does it well, without hitting you over the head with it). smoketreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08786157771907886105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-8869376555566789662017-08-02T14:04:19.594-04:002017-08-02T14:04:19.594-04:00Hermina: A story can be contained in the protagoni...<b>Hermina</b>: A story can be contained in the protagonist. Don't saddle yourself to that being all there is to it. The story is often much bigger than that of the protagonist.<br /><br /><b>Robert</b>: Just keep querying. One person's opinion is only that. If others say that the action dies, then look at it. The hardest part of action pacing are the breathers that you need in them.<br /><br />To me, querying is about enticing people to read your work. I am not going to build fences to keep people away. That is all that happens when you close in your genre and category. If it is a mystery query it as such. The rest is too subjective.Craig Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07157301156577795781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-13298476220577456752017-08-02T12:56:37.309-04:002017-08-02T12:56:37.309-04:00I don't think that agent was familiar with mys...I don't think that agent was familiar with mysteries at ALL. Stacyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365582623380288038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-75460070528696679952017-08-02T12:49:40.016-04:002017-08-02T12:49:40.016-04:00Oh geez, OP, that is harsh. I hope they delivered...Oh geez, OP, that is harsh. I hope they delivered those messages (right or wrong) with softer words! <br /><br />Tell the story, tell the story. People love stories, not messages. A good take home message! <br /><br /><b>Melanie</b> - I wonder if that published author has ever read Harry Potter? (ha) Something extraordinary happening to the every-day, 'boring' character can make the best stories!Lennon Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570629350169504234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-81904202949833416102017-08-02T12:48:27.646-04:002017-08-02T12:48:27.646-04:00Donna Just read Patti's piece over at B's....<b>Donna</b> Just read Patti's piece over at B's. <br />Stopped me cold. Now that's literary.Carolynnwith2Nshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394998702410764388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-13249953558841476392017-08-02T12:15:54.251-04:002017-08-02T12:15:54.251-04:00er- aspiring writer.er- aspiring writer.Hermina Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03373655531972239199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-26750807748658848942017-08-02T12:15:02.719-04:002017-08-02T12:15:02.719-04:00Story, as I see it, is that thing inside your prot...Story, as I see it, is that thing inside your protagonist - that unique trait, or tick or trauma - that, in the course of his/her interactions with other characters and situations, explodes, and redefines not only the pro tag, not only the novel's world but in some small way the reader's world as well. <br />Loved this post! My daughter - pairing writer - and I had some great discussion.Hermina Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03373655531972239199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-41494794917041060742017-08-02T11:37:27.333-04:002017-08-02T11:37:27.333-04:00Kate: :)Kate: :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03581361783795436259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-8581649190221152242017-08-02T10:56:41.320-04:002017-08-02T10:56:41.320-04:00Ooo, oooh (hand high and waving):
'I have a d...Ooo, oooh (hand high and waving):<br /><br /><i>'I have a downmarket, commercial genre, fictional novel about a two headed zombie/vampire and her dragon lover that is beautifully written and will stun the tail off you with it's beautiful language. All my friends, cousins and garden club say it is the best they ever read and they love the way I write beautiful run-on sentences.<br />I've self-published and sold over 2000 books on ebay. I need an agent who will promote my great book better than me and will make me the next J.F.K. Rolling.<br />(please send me your resume to see if we're compatible...and a picture)'</i>Kate Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09861373649696211491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-17758290039200872802017-08-02T10:35:36.403-04:002017-08-02T10:35:36.403-04:00Janet: So "Downmarket" is kind of like &...<b>Janet</b>: So "Downmarket" is kind of like "Downtown"--in the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx06XNfDvk0" rel="nofollow">Petula Clark</a> sense of the term...? :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-53936320559419907882017-08-02T10:31:04.413-04:002017-08-02T10:31:04.413-04:00I love Janet's definition of "Downmarket&...I love Janet's definition of "Downmarket" :-)<br /><br />Kathy Joyce: that sounds like the right idea to me.<br /><br />Donna: thanks for sharing that beautiful essay.Claire Bobrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15666082441972111293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-12649725765318004842017-08-02T10:21:00.739-04:002017-08-02T10:21:00.739-04:00Downmarket is indeed a term we use.
It is NOT an i...Downmarket is indeed a term we use.<br />It is NOT an insult.<br />Everytime you hear the word downmarket, a cash register rings.<br />Sort of like an angel, but with dollar signs, not wings.Janet Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54417696422483649602017-08-02T10:20:24.252-04:002017-08-02T10:20:24.252-04:00As for 'this genre doesn't have that'....As for 'this genre doesn't have that'... no. Genre is NOT a 'this is what it is and it has to check all the boxes.' Genre is simply a place on the bookstore shelves.<br /><br />I get Dave Langdon's Ansible e-newsletter. There's all sorts of comments in there on SFF industry stuff, including 'How others see us', which includes instances of 'I don't write science fiction. It's literary fiction with scifi elements.' Umm, 'scifi elements' is what makes a book science fiction. There is plenty of literary science fiction out there.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-61718920860617756672017-08-02T10:19:25.281-04:002017-08-02T10:19:25.281-04:00When pitching, start out talking about the story. ...When pitching, start out talking about the story. Your log line. Your one-sentence/one-paragraph description of your book. If the agent says, "Tell me more", you talk more about what happens, maybe character arcs, etc. Only mention theme if the agent mentions it first. If the agent asks you, "What makes your story unique?", you can mention theme, or character traits, or whatever you think makes it different.<br /><br />All stories deal with social issues in some way, whether blatantly or invisibly. Society is made of social issues, and all human life takes place in a society of some sort. The story may *ignore* those issues, but they're there.<br />BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-60537906455654454582017-08-02T09:46:15.352-04:002017-08-02T09:46:15.352-04:00Thanks, Janet! These terms are as wiggly as a pyth...Thanks, Janet! These terms are as wiggly as a python after a mouse. How do I know how wiggly that is? Don't even ask!Sherry Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04326605891373049617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-75203470702821236432017-08-02T09:25:34.101-04:002017-08-02T09:25:34.101-04:00Maybe one lesson here is don't categorize your...Maybe one lesson here is don't categorize your book to an agent, except in the most broad terms. It's a thriller, not a commercial, upmarket, character-driven, whatever, whatever, whatever. Let the agent decide how to characterize it, if the process gets that far.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03581361783795436259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-39609101042473331762017-08-02T09:15:54.513-04:002017-08-02T09:15:54.513-04:00And Colin, I agree completely. And I hate it when ...And Colin, I agree completely. And I hate it when relevent posts pop up between when I start writing my post and the time I complete it!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02694333358894726440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-5419524440463182832017-08-02T09:13:20.436-04:002017-08-02T09:13:20.436-04:00This topic is soooo confusing. My question is for ...This topic is soooo confusing. My question is for this blog's followers: How many of us choose the 'category' we are writing in?<br />I didn't. Whatever category I'm in just sort of happened out of word-by-word, sentence-by-sentence, paragraph-by-paragraph review. The four R’s. Write, read, revise, repeat. No conscious though to category at all. Though in retrospect, I suppose I paid a lot of attention to consistency of style, except when I didn’t, hopefully deliberately. Literary? Do readers even notice? Commercial?<br />Then onto my first two full requests. Agent one said it was a page-turner. Read to page 190 in one night, then stopped because the pace slowed down too much. Agent two said it was too literary. What?<br />Like everything in this endeavor, its so damned subjective.<br />What’s your story?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02694333358894726440noreply@blogger.com