tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post7084660896295437016..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: Sorting out credit after the work is doneJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-50520571389691750572015-11-10T20:00:36.163-05:002015-11-10T20:00:36.163-05:00Slightly off topic,but...
Elissa M— Back when I wa...Slightly off topic,but...<br />Elissa M— Back when I was a law student I was part of a legal clinic that taught workshops for students/teachers on fair use/copyright/free speech (with a focus on student speech and social media). I don't know if you(or your sister) would be interested, but I could probably put you in touch with the clinic and/or get you some of the clinic's workshop materials. Megan Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752842865397799428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43371238031752726752015-11-10T16:26:42.702-05:002015-11-10T16:26:42.702-05:00Whew...spitting...sputtering what is that white st...Whew...spitting...sputtering what is that white stuff? Quaker Oats? Pillsbury? Johnson and Johnson baby-butt powder? Ah ha, chalk.<br /><br />Hey Colin I'm glad you're finally out of your cage. You can lock the door on mine now. <br />Where the hell did I put my key? Don't look.<br />Carolynnwith2Nshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394998702410764388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-35227866953365082602015-11-10T15:43:35.561-05:002015-11-10T15:43:35.561-05:00Donna: I'm glad I could bring some light--um--...Donna: I'm glad I could bring some light--um--relief to your day... :)<br /><br />And for what it's worth, back in my technical writing days, I co-wrote a user manual for a software product. I wasn't credited. It was part of my work. And, in fact, the company policy was that ANY intellectual property made by company employees on company time, whether it's a piece of software, or any documentation, is owned by the company. I think that's pretty standard.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-89995035666850187392015-11-10T15:40:10.808-05:002015-11-10T15:40:10.808-05:00RE: Advances
I know Janet is going to speak to th...RE: Advances<br /><br />I know Janet is going to speak to this, because it's an important topic.<br /><br />Still...<br /><br /><br />A) In a reasonable contract, the advance isn't based on how much the writer gets per book. It's based on how much profit the publisher makes. So 'earning out your advance' does NOT mean you make as much money in royalties as you recieve in an advance. It means that it earned the PUBLISHER the amount that was given in the advance.<br /><br />B) Advances don't necessarily (ever?) have to be paid back if they don't earn out. I believe Janet recently mentioned that - in contracts she negotiates, anyway - the only time the author has to pay the advance back is if the publisher will not be publishing the book due to editorial concerns. Which I believe means that the author's work just isn't as good as the publisher expected it to be, or the author hasn't been keeping up on their edits.<br /><br />C) It is often possible to negotiate a contract where the earnings are NOT contingent on how a previous book did. What I mean (and I cannot for the life of me remember the correct wording) is that, if the advance for the first book is not earned out by the first book, that negative balance will not be carried over to the earnings from the second book.<br /><br />Often possible. Not always possible, but as I understand it, it's what agents strive for in their clients' contracts. That, and full accounting for how many books sold at what price.<br /><br />This sort of thing is why agents are so important.<br /><br />One teensy thing more: the OP said that this is a new company and "pretty much anything we do is up for negotiation". If that's the case, and if the contract the OP signed when hired does NOT include a clause saying that 'anything you write on the job belongs to the company', then hell yeah, try to negotiate. Be fair, though, knowing that you've been paid for your time already, and don't negotiate yourself out of a job.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43170618284500531942015-11-10T15:27:52.667-05:002015-11-10T15:27:52.667-05:00I'm late, but I have to say ditto to Ask a Man...I'm late, but I have to say ditto to Ask a Manager's answer, (a handle which seems so appropriate considering said topic) because I did something very similar in my corporate days, for multiple pieces of "work."<br /><br />For instance, I wrote a white paper on Web Conferencing which was eventually published on the company's website, but if they had decided to put it in a book along with all the other whitepapers and called it "Nortel On Nortel" (our promo line about our IT software/hardware technology running our business) I highly doubt they would have paid me any royalty. They would have looked at me like I'd grown two heads and said, "Uh, hello, salaried?"<br /><br />Which is all a moot point - and my little ole whitepaper is lost to the ages because our company is no more.<br /><br />The End.<br /><br />(***Colin - totally cracked up over your Ex-LAX and running loose.)Donnaevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09026536210749494257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-56923217570208209452015-11-10T14:35:12.601-05:002015-11-10T14:35:12.601-05:00*claps erasers over 2Ns' head*
Actually, I wa...*claps erasers over 2Ns' head*<br /><br />Actually, I was teacher's pet. She kept me locked up in a cage at the back of the classroom... ;)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-79947246250721052402015-11-10T14:31:56.218-05:002015-11-10T14:31:56.218-05:00Y'all, this really sounds like it's work f...Y'all, this really sounds like it's work for hire. In most offices, the OP would come across as very tone-deaf if she asks for royalties. This isn't people collaborating on a book outside a workplace; it's happening at work, they've paid her to do it, and it's almost certainly falling under work for hire, which means that her pay is her salary/wages, not something on top of that just because this particular work project is a book.Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-5955902952928767052015-11-10T14:25:06.656-05:002015-11-10T14:25:06.656-05:00I was hired by a book packager to write several bo...I was hired by a book packager to write several books which were then published by major publishers. I don't own the rights, but my name is right there on the covers.<br /><br />Do I use them as publishing credits? Damn skippy.<br /><br />InkStainedWenchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04218141346324970504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-86378680219934759352015-11-10T13:44:09.806-05:002015-11-10T13:44:09.806-05:00Hey Colin, Mr. LAX-PSA announcer. Your time at the...Hey Colin, Mr. LAX-PSA announcer. Your time at the mike hit 170 words, mine stint was 113. We're both bad but I win.<br /><br />I'll bet in school you collected the homework papers and got to clean the blackboards and clap the erasers.Love you man.<br /><br />NOW I'm off topic and really dating myself. <br /><br />Carolynnwith2Nshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394998702410764388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-16024518532806259492015-11-10T13:30:03.534-05:002015-11-10T13:30:03.534-05:00 I got nothin’, no pseudo intellectual advice, no... I got nothin’, no pseudo intellectual advice, no humorous anecdote, ( spell-check had to help me with anecdote), no all-knowing seer-like expressions to help you get what I think, you think, you deserve, except to say, you’ve been paid already.<br /><br />Your compilation, writing effort and outcome, provides wonderful experience. I say take the high road. Whether you own the company or not, let it be known, you did this one for the team baby.<br /> <br />Respect and accolades will fill your good-karma writing portfolio to overflowing. Next time is another thing entirely. If this one is successful they will be throwing money at you for the next one.<br /> <br />I guess I did have something to say.<br />(I went over my word count, I’m a bad girl.)<br />Carolynnwith2Nshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394998702410764388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-21223334775112714652015-11-10T13:24:42.279-05:002015-11-10T13:24:42.279-05:00Also, to my knowledge most publishers do not do ca...Also, to my knowledge most publishers do not do carry-over advances unless the contract is multi-book. In which case, you could put up a stinker for a fair advance and possibly (though it would have to be quite a book for someone to take another risk) get another advance that wouldn't need to recoup the first.<br /><br />Sorry, derailing the convo I know. I just love the subject because people complain about publishing contracts saying they're a bad deal -- but if they want to see a bad deal they should take a look at a few of my friends music contracts... Try more like 2% royalties if your lucky... oh and split that between 5 sweaty guys who you now have to live with 9 months out of the year in a used van.<br /><br />:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-44855260904832268502015-11-10T13:20:02.203-05:002015-11-10T13:20:02.203-05:00Dave,
In my experience that's how this works ...Dave,<br /><br />In my experience that's how this works with music contracts. In fact, in music they actually level out the advances against the life of the contract so lots of artists never make a royalty. For instance, if you get paid 10,000 in an advance to put out your first record, and 20,000 in advance for a second a year later, and your first record only earns $3,000 in sales, you won't be seeing a royalty until you earn $27,000.<br /><br />But, and this is a big but, to my understanding not all advances are considered recoupable by the publisher. (Janet, correct me if I'm wrong here.) The contract dictates what is considered recoupable and what isn't. So there is a chance your 10k advance is a freebie. <br /><br />Another consideration is the publishing machine. Businesses live and die off profits, and the marketing machine on a traditionally published book is far more powerful than the average Self-Pubber (who sells approximately 100 books at 2.99 a piece for a grand total of $299). Even the exceptional self-pubber would need to sell 2000 books at $5 bucks a pop just to break even with the advance. And that's with marketing coming out of their own budget, so most savvy self-pubbers will end up siphoning all that money right back into advertisements. Sure, publishers lose money on books sometimes, but in most cases the machine works at least well enough to recoup the advance, or the advance price would be lowered (or dissapear completely). This doesn't mean debut authors are taking home 50k a year... heck, they're probably not taking home 10k a year... but it does mean things aren't quite so desperate as they appear.<br /><br />For the vast majority of situations, you can have 95% of a little bit of money, or you can have 17% of a significant amount of money. There are exceptions to both cases, but that's a more accurate breakdown.<br /><br />In other news - I can finally see Janet's blog at work so now I can actually comment instead of lurking for the past few weeks. :) YAY! The Captain is back to his BS'ery.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-55410155779905658972015-11-10T12:48:07.310-05:002015-11-10T12:48:07.310-05:00Great advice from the shark and previous commenter...Great advice from the shark and previous commenters. My question is how many books are they expecting to sell, and is it really worth all this angst after the fact. The most valuable lesson to be learned is in going forward with new projects. Since OP did the writing in the course of his paid time at the office, it sounds like work for hire.<br />I guess it never hurts to ask, but only if you aren't putting your job in peril (if it's some place you want to continue working.) you could frame the conversation in terms of a future writing project, but. I wouldn't hold your breath over getting paid for this one.Panda in Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14160375490647791433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-66919398340563982602015-11-10T12:46:22.764-05:002015-11-10T12:46:22.764-05:00Like Karen, I am curious how the math works for fi...Like Karen, I am curious how the math works for fiction? While I suspect the OP's situation is indeed fee for service, regardless, my understanding of royalties is limited. Also does it vary for point of sale (Amazon vs BN) and media type (hard back, paperback, audiobook, kindle, etc)? <br /><br />Now back to negotiating my way off Carkoon before I end up with Colin in LAX. <br /><br />E.M. Goldsmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387494005655553037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-50556144253190737032015-11-10T11:57:50.826-05:002015-11-10T11:57:50.826-05:00Excellent advice from the shark, as always. And a ...Excellent advice from the shark, as always. And a good snapshot into royalty rates. This might have been asked already, but I'm curious whether the same rules apply to fiction, or whether it varies across the board.<br /><br />And great contest entries from the weekend! The finalists all gave me chillz.<br /><br />And yes. Math. Ugh. All the time. As a book buyer, my life is now percentages, calculators and spreadsheets. <br /><br />Had a dream last night that we all sat in a sunny park on picnic blankets and discussed books and writing. It was beautiful.Karen McCoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02640324898284007337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-70480487369237967782015-11-10T11:38:29.568-05:002015-11-10T11:38:29.568-05:00Angie,
"I don't know if work for hire ca...Angie,<br /><br />"I don't know if work for hire can be claimed by the artists/ writers." <br /><br />It depends on their agreement, but look at VAMPIRE DIARIES. They were work-for-hire, but Smith still has her name on the novels as creator even though they are written by ghostwriters. She still gets royalties on books even though she hasn't written them.<br /><br />You probably won't see a writer's name on clever ad copy, though.<br /><br />When I worked for the magazine, my name was on most of my stories, but we had some smaller stories we grouped together into a "recap" and no credit was given.<br /><br />I could use the tear sheets of these stories as samples of my work certainly.<br /><br />Regarding queries. Forgive me for being long-winded today. This is my bio on my queries. <br /><br />I was a lead writer for ABC, a weekly horse racing magazine, for twenty-three years where I wrote race and human interest stories. I now write for Raincrow Studios, LLC., an indie game developer.<br /><br />I include this because it shows I have enough whatever it takes to hit a tough weekly deadline for 23 years without waiting for the muse to move me and I should have some of the basics down. It also demonstrates I should know a bit about horses and all of my fantasies are heavily horse cultured. The game company is a good platform for a fantasy writer. Gamers are readers.<br /><br />Patrick Rothfuss draws heavily on his chemical engineering background for his fantasies. You wouldn't think writings about chemical engineering would have any bearing on fantasy until you study his magic system and realize how perfectly believable it is.<br /><br />Anyway, sorry for rambling. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-58361133753047719182015-11-10T11:29:12.011-05:002015-11-10T11:29:12.011-05:00[OT: PSA]
I suppose it's in the woodland crea...[OT: PSA]<br /><br />I suppose it's in the woodland creature instinct that when an agent gives guidelines to good practice, we want to take them as rules, laws to be obeyed lest we incur the wrath of the Publishing Industry and find ourselves exiled to Carkoon, or LAX.<br /><br />So may I offer a gentle reminder of QOTKU's words from Sunday?:<br /><br /><i>"I don't mind some minor straying but it needs to be within hailing distance of the actual topic. <b>Y'all are smart people. You know when you're going too far. I trust you to manage yourselves.</b>"</i><br /><br />Note those last three sentences. I don't think Janet intends us to be pedantic over <i>only</i> three comments, and heaven forbid you stray over 100 words. These are guidelines for those who have trouble determining if they've "gone too far" or can't "manage" themselves.<br /><br />I'm trying to be better about not overloading the comments, but that's as much for my benefit as yours. That extra commenting energy gets used on my WiP. :)<br /><br />[End of PSA]Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-36815570500054342442015-11-10T11:18:06.881-05:002015-11-10T11:18:06.881-05:00Comment 2
As for the math. This something everyon...Comment 2<br /><br />As for the math. This something everyone should understand, especial if they plan of publishing a book with an literary agent.<br /><br />This is just an example:<br />A book sells on Amazon for $1.00. <br />Amazon takes a fee of 35% or $0.35 of every dollar<br />The publisher pays the author 30% of the $0.65 remaining. This means $0.20 for the author. <br />Out of that $0.20 the agent takes 15% or $0.03<br />Leaving $0.17 for the author of each book sold at $1.00<br /><br />Now the fun part. If the author was paid an advance of $1,000, which the agent takes 15% or $150, that must be paid back to the publisher. The book would have to sell 5,128 copies before the author receives a penny beyond their advance. <br /><br />You can wake up now. <br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928795394255396224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-44114628145613558832015-11-10T10:56:30.692-05:002015-11-10T10:56:30.692-05:00OP if you were paid for the work, then you will be...OP if you were paid for the work, then you will be hard pressed to negotiate a royalty percentage for the work you have already been paid for. This will depend on your company intellectual properties policies. Most companies will argue that since they paid you for the work, they hold the intellectual properties rights.<br /><br />Next time, negotiate a royalty percentage up front. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928795394255396224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-65741080935513396542015-11-10T10:37:52.160-05:002015-11-10T10:37:52.160-05:00Up to a certain point it sounded like you, OPIE, w...Up to a certain point it sounded like you, OPIE, was specifically tasked to gather this information as paid for hire, since the e-book was going to be free to the public. <br /><br />Once it was announced that the e-book was going to be sold, would you, OPIE, still have done the work involved without extra compensation if you knew this upfront? Were you included in the discussion to change it from free to $$? If not, you may have less bargaining power in the company's mind. <br /><br />And yes, the copyright issue is important.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Janice Grinyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14363741660626407979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-25918952763386049242015-11-10T10:34:38.828-05:002015-11-10T10:34:38.828-05:00Elissa: I'm not a copyright expert, by any mea...Elissa: I'm not a copyright expert, by any means, but I've done a lot of reading on it.<br /><br />It really bothers me when people say, "Well, it's fair use," for anything from one cartoon out of a collection to an entire article 'for educational purposes'.<br /><br />You can claim 'fair use', but that doesn't mean that you'll necessarily win a court case. And the only one who can actually decide if something is legally 'fair use' is a court. And honestly, that is not where you want your use of someone else's work to be decided.<br /><br />/end rant. And that's my three comments for the day. I look forward to reading everyone else's thoughts.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-31835886573138118232015-11-10T10:25:28.214-05:002015-11-10T10:25:28.214-05:00Angie asked if you can use something written for h...Angie asked if you can use something written for hire as a publishing credit:<br /><br />Yes and no, really.<br /><br />On a resume or CV, or in a portfolio of your work, yes. You can use it. It's a good idea to get permission from your employer if you're going to be showing it to others. If it's an internal document, you may need to redact all internal information.<br /><br />In a query letter? Iffy. I would say, if it has a direct relationship to what you're querying (such as a brochure on a local historical event, when your book is specifically about that event), then mentioning it wouldn't hurt; for instance, "I researched and wrote the Specific Local History Society's brochure on The War over the Dung Pile" might fit in your publishing history, if the novel is centred on that event.<br /><br />If you've written a brochure on a medical condition, though, and you write science fiction that has nothing to do with that condition, then it's 'right out', as Monty Python might say.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-8254792662215266332015-11-10T10:05:33.376-05:002015-11-10T10:05:33.376-05:00Julie quoted something my sister (a middle-school ...Julie quoted something my sister (a middle-school librarian) runs into daily: "It's on the internet. It's free."<br /><br />One thing my sister strives to teach her students is the basics of copyright. What makes her job more difficult is she gets the "internet=free" comment regularly--from fellow faculty members. And yes, while there are exceptions for educational purposes, those exceptions don't mean teachers can use anything and everything they find in its entirety with no regard to copyright.<br /><br />As far as the OP's question goes, it does sound like work for hire to me as well. But I don't see how it can hurt to ask for a royalty.<br /><br />The point others have brought up about what exactly did the OP do, is a concern. "Finding" and "collecting" the interviews sounds like the OP dug up other authors' work, but it could mean OP "found" the interviewees and conducted ("collected") the interviews. If it's the former situation, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.Elissa Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727748060605823895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-86228287787261338602015-11-10T09:51:25.605-05:002015-11-10T09:51:25.605-05:00I think it is a great learning experience. Learn f...I think it is a great learning experience. Learn from it and have you eyes open the next time. If you push it polishing your resume might be in order. You agreed to be paid by the hour for it so it is water under the bridge.<br /><br />Most of the legal precedents have sided with the company you were working for. Make sure you spell it out in advance the next time.Craig Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07157301156577795781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54734383067818203442015-11-10T09:38:32.388-05:002015-11-10T09:38:32.388-05:00I have nothing to add. All the wisdom on this issu...I have nothing to add. All the wisdom on this issue is with those that have been there-done-that, which is not me. Probably just as well since I've migrated from the slush pile to LAX. Does this mean I'm back on Earth, or is my exile TERMINAL? :D Actually, I doubt Janet wants to release me from LAX, because then I'd be Ex-LAX, and she really doesn't want me running loose...<br /><br />Julie: "It's on the internet. It's free." *slaps head*Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.com