tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post6003570454402186707..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: No one says anything is wrong, but they're also not saying yesJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-32110338662074660182017-07-15T07:40:37.139-04:002017-07-15T07:40:37.139-04:00Just wanted to de-lurk for two comments: 1) the dr...Just wanted to de-lurk for two comments: 1) the dreaded 'glowing rejection' does NOT go away after publication. I have two published novels and am now collecting glowing rejections and have yet to sell a third book. I get to worry about 'sales figures' being a reason as well as any unnoticed issues in the manuscript I and my beta readers and my agent might have missed that are causing the rejections. Which leads me to number 2) where does one find 'an editor who has worked for a big publisher, and is now doing freelance consulting' because I'm willing to try after three straight submissions have gone into hibernation after receiving 'glowing rejections.' <br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03525836364241572779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54071123518541429192017-07-13T01:31:44.007-04:002017-07-13T01:31:44.007-04:00I think I'm finally past the "marked for ...I think I'm finally past the "marked for death" stage of this cold/flu, although I'm not yet quite ready to cancel the moirologists. So I thought I'd (belatedly) weigh in on this.<br /><br />OP, I've seen this happen often enough it might apply to you: Sometime along the third or fourth novel, we learn enough about craft that we polish that sucker to death. We're so intent on getting it "right" and making it "great," we lose sight of the fact that flaws are interesting and rules are meant to be broken. <br /><br />We forget we're in the entertainment business. We adopt a veil of pretension and begin to insist we're "authors" and forget we're storytellers. [The best distinction re this came from a now-forgotten source, a bestselling writer, who said: "I call myself a writer. Author is what other people call me."] <br /><br />My advice is to shelve this ms for a while. Read the 5-10 currently top-selling books in your genre. Pay attention to what makes them entertaining, what makes you want to turn the page. Then drag out your first two novels. Yes, you'll see all your mistakes. Ignore that. Find the things you loved about those stories, all the things you did right, what made you write them. And then, only then, re-read your third ms with an eye for what you're still doing right versus what you've smoothed over and dulled in an attempt at "perfection." It might or might not be fixable, who knows, but you will have learned from it. Write the next one.<br /><br />Wishing all the best of luck to you.<br /><br /><br /><b>Megan</b>, this is biography, not a novel, but I wonder whether you mean Katherine Ramsland's, Confession of a Serial Killer. Toward the end, this NYT article [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/magazine/the-serial-killers-co-author.html] talks about her family's brushes with violence: "Violence seemed wound into Ramsland’s life as much as — if not more than — Rader’s. “Sometimes I wonder if I’m a psychopath,” Ramsland said." Creepy stuff.<br /><br /><br />Sorry for being less than succinct. I'm sure the fevered coughing fits will prevent me from commenting again until next week.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-52451091933637778632017-07-12T20:52:51.919-04:002017-07-12T20:52:51.919-04:00All I want to say is, good luck, OP! Not seeing w...All I want to say is, good luck, OP! Not seeing what is 'wrong' is the worst feeling. <br /><br />And of course, thanks, Janet! I never knew the importance of surprises (even little ones) until I started writing FF here. The list of benefits for writing FF just keeps getting bigger!Lennon Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570629350169504234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-55438945659476331642017-07-12T20:43:11.502-04:002017-07-12T20:43:11.502-04:00Colin smoothies are definitely higher on my list, ...<b>Colin</b> smoothies are definitely higher on my list, and now you've got me hungry. <br /><br /><b>JD Ms Frain </b> Nope. But thanks for the additional TBR!<br />Megan Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752842865397799428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-56386978045132366382017-07-12T18:56:14.786-04:002017-07-12T18:56:14.786-04:00No author would query their first novel? Hmm. Well...No author would query their first novel? Hmm. Well, after working on mine for 7 years, rewriting it dozens of times, I'm certainly going to try! However, seeing as I've written an MG fantasy, I won't hold my breath, just gotta get working on the next book.<br /><br />Good luck, OP. Sounds like you are sooooo close. If this novel doesn't get you repped, then surely your next one will. Also, have you read 'Writing the breakout novel' by Donald Maass? Might be worth a gander.MA Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11055543285024785889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-9108423459184805132017-07-12T18:51:45.665-04:002017-07-12T18:51:45.665-04:00It occurs to me that the Comments section is simil...It occurs to me that the Comments section is similar to agent responses. Lots of differing opinions. What do you decide to go with? Contact the agents who rejected the full or will that burn bridges? Hire an editor or is that throwing money away? And on and one.<br /><br />I hope you don't think this is a setup for the answer, cuz I got nothin'. Just making an observation. Sorry.<br /><br /><b>Megan</b>, I wonder if you're thinking of Greg Iles' <i>24 Hours</i>?<br />John Davis Frainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020019400599228492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54356472565133398282017-07-12T17:53:07.237-04:002017-07-12T17:53:07.237-04:00Yes, I agree with Ms. Reid. You need a critique.
...Yes, I agree with Ms. Reid. You need a critique.<br /><br />My take on it is that no means no. "Gosh, you are the greatest writer since Homer, but I think I'll pass" is a no. Even an agent contract is not a yes. Even editorial interest is not yet a yes. An advance is a yes. When you blow Louise Penny from the NYT bestseller list and you are battling paparazzi, that's a "Hell, yes." When Oprah comes out of retirement just to have you on her show, you're going places. When you get invited to Oxford University to lecture the English Department - well, you get the idea.<br /><br />It ain't cheap, but you can get a crit from Writer's Digest.<br />Steve Stubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13421775912951050610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-89076030756439723062017-07-12T16:09:46.653-04:002017-07-12T16:09:46.653-04:00Megan: Yay for attractive slushees!! Though, I'...<b>Megan</b>: Yay for attractive slushees!! Though, I'd rather have a smoothie. Fruit. Or chocolate. Mmmm. Anyone else hungry, now? :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-50406642136034664742017-07-12T15:51:07.869-04:002017-07-12T15:51:07.869-04:00Op- You are in the spot I've recently dubbed t...Op- You are in the spot I've recently dubbed the slushee station. Your ms made it past the point of being slush in the pile. An agent chose to sample your mses flavor, thinking they'd like the flavor. Ms was siphoned from pile to cup. After consuming the ms slushee, they decided they liked it or maybe even loved the flavor. But now that they have an empty cup they don't think it's a slushee they must have again, right now, before anyone else decides to steal the entire machine. Maybe it's because they've had similar flavors all month. Maybe they think it's missing some zing. They aren't turned off by your slushee, they'd be willing to try another one of your slushees from the station the future. What can you do? 1. Wait for another agent to try your slushee. 2. Change the slushee flavor a bit with the help of expert flavorists 3. Invent a new slushee flavor <br /><br />It's painful to be told you're attractive when what you want to hear is that you're pretty. But you're clearly doing something right. Be careful about asking for more feedback though. That request is not always welcome and if handled very poorly may burn bridges.<br /><br />Best wishes to you!<br /><br />Ot: I've been searching for a book I read once that I'm dying to read again. It involved a serial killer and the author used his/her family's own experience with being targeted by a killer/hitchhiker when writing. Unfortunately I read too dang much and my TBR lately has made my head feel like I've been collecting TNT instead of books! Megan Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752842865397799428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-20219646332904588972017-07-12T15:03:19.107-04:002017-07-12T15:03:19.107-04:00Congratulations, OP. You are obviously doing more ...Congratulations, OP. You are obviously doing more than one thing right. Here's a thought that I haven't seen mentioned. Subject matter.<br /><br />I had the same thing happen to me. I received glowing 2 and even a 3 page letter telling me how wonderful my novel was, but in the end, it was never right for anyone. It took me years to figure out why no one would bite. My book was YA, and dealt with race, and nobody wanted to touch it with a ten foot pole.<br /><br />While you are writing fantasy, are the themes or ideas expressed in the novel considered controversial? Not politically correct? If so, that may be the issue. Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15769803733067838372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-2620702819553556422017-07-12T14:51:31.714-04:002017-07-12T14:51:31.714-04:00OP, yours is a really tough spot to be in, and whi...OP, yours is a really tough spot to be in, and while I congratulate you on the fantastic feedback (it really is wonderful, and you can be very proud!), I completely understand your frustration. Janet's suggestion to hire an editor makes sense -- but it can be pricey. FWIW, I hired one once, and she ended up echoing some feedback I'd heard before. She didn't help me find a solution to the problem she identified, but I felt more certain about what I had to fix, and I ultimately found an answer (and an agent). Also, she only read the first 25 pages, which was quite affordable -- a good option if you don't want to shell out a lot for what can be a crap shoot. Finally, you might put away your ms for a bit -- stop querying and work on something else -- then come back with your own fresh eyes. <br /><br />Whatever your next move, I want to add my name to the list of those cheering for you on the reef. All my best wishes as you move forward!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00057611467208638753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-85268692772672654712017-07-12T14:30:40.050-04:002017-07-12T14:30:40.050-04:00I'm a devotee of PEACE LIKE A RIVER too. On...I'm a devotee of PEACE LIKE A RIVER too. One of my all-time favourite books, and one I re-read every few years, just to remind me how beautiful it is. In fact, it must be round that time again….<br /><br />And thanks for the tip, Colin! The cake wasn't warm when I iced it - I'd refrigerated it over night. I think maybe the office was too warm (which seems incredible, given we're in the throes of a bitter winter storm right now) and I hadn't given the icing enough time to set before I took it into the warm room.Kate Larkindalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06202347563426692610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-16063730275687643022017-07-12T14:12:59.852-04:002017-07-12T14:12:59.852-04:00Kate: OT BAKING TIP! Sarah says if your frosting m...<b>Kate</b>: OT BAKING TIP! Sarah says if your frosting melts, it means your cake is too warm. She put hers in the freezer for a little while <i>before</i> applying her superlative cream cheese frosting (which she assures me is really simple to make... yeah right!)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-61800488388865813452017-07-12T14:03:12.654-04:002017-07-12T14:03:12.654-04:00OpieCongrats on those frustratingly beautiful reje...<b>Opie</b>Congrats on those frustratingly beautiful rejections.<br /><br />Reading the comments is now having me try not to despair that my category (YA Fantasy) is overwhelmed with queries for me to be weighed against.Morgan Hazelwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17713547255894719134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-6920047172446563202017-07-12T13:44:09.789-04:002017-07-12T13:44:09.789-04:00I'm with Mark T regarding specific negative fe...I'm with <b>Mark T</b> regarding specific negative feedback. Yes, to that - I love constructive criticism.<br /><br />I've been devoting a lot of time to educating myself about the world of MG. Still have much to learn, but one of my activities has been hanging out in well-stocked bookstores and reading the opening chapters of MG titles. Story after story (after story after story) is fantasy. I suppose there's a reason for this...it's selling? Must be. But in my own unimportant little opinion, enough already.<br /><br /><b>Donna, Julie</b>, Shortly after the 100th FF contest, I attended our local Friends of the Library book sale. Perusing the titles I came upon <i>The Scapegrace</i>. I don't recall the author, but it made me smile. (I may have already shared this).Melanie Sue Bowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820711791019410116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-86704121175249179032017-07-12T13:21:31.816-04:002017-07-12T13:21:31.816-04:00To those picking up on the PEACE LIKE A RIVER part...To those picking up on the PEACE LIKE A RIVER part of this, it truly will go down, at least for me, as a favorite book of all time. (Much like THE STORY OF EDGAR SAWTELLE, also with its smidgen of magical realism.)<br /><br />I only have about 1/3 left. <br /><br />Leif Enger is my hero. Like Sarah said about being left breathless with regard to the writing, well, that's the way it's been for me the entire book. With regard to my own writing, I have got such a long way to go.<br /><br />Sorry to keep on and on...but rarely does a book gobsmack me like this one.Donnaevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09026536210749494257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43635413675409567982017-07-12T13:07:36.434-04:002017-07-12T13:07:36.434-04:00I recently stumbled across a Mark Twain quote, &qu...I recently stumbled across a Mark Twain quote, "I can live for two months on a good compliment." OP, frustrating as this situation is, you know professional people believe you can write. And that's a valuable thing to get you through the hard times.<br /><br />So if this story doesn't sell, you know you can write another and another until the right story meets with the right agent and the right publisher - and the market and phase of the moon and timing all align - and your miracle happens. And we'll all cheer.Beth Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02447148196867821907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-57464252869061514962017-07-12T12:58:45.788-04:002017-07-12T12:58:45.788-04:00As Jen (11:32) pointed out, upper MG fantasy is a ...As Jen (11:32) pointed out, upper MG fantasy is a really saturated market right now. I imagine that trying to sell a debut novel in this category is similar to trying to sell a debut YA 2-3 years ago: publishers' lists are full of the stuff and you're competing for your audience with established best-sellers. Market segmentation is a real thing and it's the reason publishers won't take a manuscript on if they've already got multiple books in that category on their list. I know it sounds harsh, but you have to ask yourself if your novel would be able to stand apart in a genre dominated by juggernauts like Rick Riordan and Ransom Riggs...because I can guarantee you that the agents in question asked themselves that exact question. <br /><br />And for the record, there's a difference between writing to market trends and paying attention to market trends. Letting trends guide your writing is futile because what's being published today was sold two (or more) years ago, so you're already behind the curve. But paying attention to trends means being able to recognize when a genre or type of story is glutting the marketplace, and realizing that choosing to write in such a crowded lane means you can write a darn good story - maybe even one that agents praise - and still not be able to secure representation or sell a manuscript, because publishers simply aren't buying anything new in that category.<br /><br />I'm not saying don't write for yourself - the heart wants what it wants, and you should be passionate about what you write - but eschewing taking what's selling and what's not into consideration isn't a virtue. This is your career, after all - why approach it with one hand tied behind your back?literary_lottiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00623210323911052377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-86721253598608886652017-07-12T12:08:53.579-04:002017-07-12T12:08:53.579-04:00Thank you BJ for your comment! I didn't think ...Thank you BJ for your comment! I didn't think of it that way. I have a good critique group, but we're all preparing for PW so I didn't want to bother them haha. I hope I get some requests from mentors there, and maybe they can tell me what's not working.<br /><br />I think I was so surprised because the second one, the characters aren't 3D enough, blindsided me. Not a single one of my readers said anything about it, and in fact said that was one of the book's strengths! So I'm wondering if it's the difference between beta readers and agents. But I can't afford an editor right now :( Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16529767708330742025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-50901285477031776682017-07-12T12:02:45.383-04:002017-07-12T12:02:45.383-04:00It may depend on the kind of fantasy it is. Is it ...It may depend on the kind of fantasy it is. Is it based in Europe? Something else that's done a lot? Mine takes place in an alternate Greece, but it still starts out with ball gowns, which a very astute agent informed me was pretty much done to death. See what elements are tropish--and see how yours breaks the mold. I'm sure it does in some capacity.<br /><br />And I sympathize. I'm querying myself, and I also write fantasy. However, I think my husband put it best--you won't win the lottery unless you buy a ticket. Keep writing, keep querying. And I will too...Karen McCoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02640324898284007337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-57576604917091712962017-07-12T11:59:02.095-04:002017-07-12T11:59:02.095-04:00This is a great reminder that positive feedback is...This is a great reminder that positive feedback is nice, but specific negative feedback is the real gem. Don't get me wrong, I resist negative feedback just like everyone else, but I have to concede that:<br /><br />1) It's what actually helps me make my manuscript better.<br /><br />2) It takes a skillful reader to provide specific, concrete, helpful negative feedback.<br /><br />3) People stick out their necks when they give negative feedback. They know there it is a risk it will be poorly received, and sometimes in a way that will cause problems for them.<br /><br />4) It is rarer than positive feedback, mainly because of #3 & #4.<br /><br />Good beta readers and CPs help a lot. I have also found workshops with agents to be extremely helpful in providing perspectives that my beta readers and CPs don't have. I enrolled in these workshops precisely because I couldn't get specific negative feedback through the query process. (I got plenty of non-specific negative feedback, of course, in the sense that my request rate was low!)<br /><br />The workshops I did were online group sessions where everyone critiqued everyone else's pages and the agents chimed in and participated in a conference call at the end. I know agents also provide feedback at conferences and through charity giveaways, which would seem to be great options as well. <br /><br />It sounds like you are doing great, OP. Keep on plugging, and best of luck!<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09886045611763178062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43991000087529589592017-07-12T11:32:58.561-04:002017-07-12T11:32:58.561-04:00Hi OP,
After seeing all the full requests you'...Hi OP,<br /><br />After seeing all the full requests you've received, as well as all the positive feedback, I wonder if it's simply a matter of the huge supply of MG and YA fantasy in the market right now. I follow a lot of agents on Tumblr, and every one is saying the market is glutted in that particular genre. None of them are taking on new authors who write in that genre. <br /><br />I really feel you on all this. I wrote a rom com mystery right as the market tanked for that genre. I, too, got a lot of great feedback, a ton of full requests. Heck, I was even lucky enough to get an offer of rep! Cue the tinker-tape parade complete with marching bands, I was on my way!<br /><br />But my MS never sold. And once the market fully tanked, he stopped sending it for submissions b/c no editor wanted to see that genre anymore. <br /><br />Are you in the same leaky boat? I'm not sure, but I do know you shouldn't give up. If you feel strongly about your MS, fight for it. If you have something new to write, fantasy or otherwise, write it as you continue to query. You can't control the market, but you can control what you do in the meantime.<br /><br />Good luck! :-) Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288010060936146108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-63263066049116543402017-07-12T11:28:46.340-04:002017-07-12T11:28:46.340-04:00I'm not so sure about the advice to go back to...I'm not so sure about the advice to go back to agents and ask them to explain their rejections. Yes, some agents will. But time has value. You're essentially asking someone to give you a gift - to spend their time analyzing the flaws in your work and give you the benefit of their experience, and this after they have already chosen not to devote their time to your project. You can ask, but if all you get is silence in return, that shouldn't reflect badly on the agent.<br /><br />As for different opinions from different agents/editors/beta readers, that's standard. You have to judge what feedback works for you. But when everyone starts telling you the same thing, then you should listen with extra care.<br /><br />Amy Schaeferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263719891092841767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-44776270075921120532017-07-12T11:26:47.750-04:002017-07-12T11:26:47.750-04:00I'll second Donna's emotion about Peace Li...I'll second Donna's emotion about Peace Like a River. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03546056344286926982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-38532863683430096752017-07-12T11:14:49.920-04:002017-07-12T11:14:49.920-04:00OT, but picking up on the OP's distinction bet...OT, but picking up on the OP's distinction between writer/author and BJ Muntain's followup to same - I got married in Scotland, and on the official forms, I put my profession as 'writer'.<br /><br />I was told I couldn't. Because, you see, in Scotland, or at least in that particular context in Scotland, 'writer' means 'writer to the Signet' - a super special lawyer in a society that dates back over 400 years, with 'a personal commitment to the exceptional standards of competence and integrity expected of those associated with the historic seal of Scotland’s kings and queens, known as the Signet'.<br /><br />Which I'm not. I'm kind of sad about that, since I'm sure they have secret handshakes, and candlelit dinners in Gothic castles, and awesome robes.<br /><br />Plus a Signet.<br /><br />But 'author' was okay, and that's on my marriage certificate.TS Rosenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490162523413939050noreply@blogger.com