tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post530965455583947249..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: Query Question: Querying for timelinessJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-36828700446778631672016-04-27T08:51:53.702-04:002016-04-27T08:51:53.702-04:00I'm way, WAY late to this party but I can'...I'm way, WAY late to this party but I can't thank all the commenters enough. Scribbler neurosis means I'm ALWAYS looking for something new to spazz about. I'm scrapping jingles for a copy editor and now I hear of this "developmental editor," of which you all type. So, of course, I'm ready to spazz about whether I need 'dis or not. Needed or not, it's outside of my budget, unless I decide to stop writing crime and start committing crime. Thanks, again, one scribble sibling to another.EliasMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15001582934570664540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-11468514643636360612014-03-12T22:56:51.866-04:002014-03-12T22:56:51.866-04:00Ok, I remember being at my one and only-ever write...Ok, I remember being at my one and only-ever writers conference, and listening to this agent speak, and what struck me was her statement on money. As a writer, money should flow one way, to you. MNyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10406097805165082275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-83663864047110980812014-03-12T10:14:01.749-04:002014-03-12T10:14:01.749-04:00i am not sure critiques from other writers is the ...i am not sure critiques from other writers is the most honest and helpful move. many are new to the writing process themselves, another bunch may not read enough in your genre to offer helpful advice, and the other lot may be clueless about syntax and grammar. and of course you always have the contingent with nefarious motives.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107051583823993119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-36870365649724806982014-03-12T10:07:28.867-04:002014-03-12T10:07:28.867-04:00why not get an english teacher/professor to critiq...why not get an english teacher/professor to critique your work...for much less cost, i imagine?Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107051583823993119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-18862363802803743832014-03-12T09:15:55.744-04:002014-03-12T09:15:55.744-04:00Wow. Like the other three-dozen people are saying,...Wow. Like the other three-dozen people are saying, I agree: that price is WAY out of whack.<br /><br />I don't know if my reputation is "well-regarded," but I charge a heck of a lot less (probably 20% of that) for editing services. Maybe you're paying extra for their reputation, but it shouldn't be THAT much extra, no matter WHO you've hired.<br /><br />And yes, the publishing process is glacial.<br /><br />I'd say, get other writers to critique it: that's the best editing for a rough draft to tell you if it's even worth publishing. And if it is, THEN hire a CHEAPER editor. Chances are, when you get an agent they'll want to get it edited again anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-1365628853821602012014-03-11T23:28:31.976-04:002014-03-11T23:28:31.976-04:00I also had Terri's concern about whether the b...I also had Terri's concern about whether the book had a political agenda.<br /><br />Time spent in learning to edit one's own work is almost always going to be much more effective than money spent in paying someone else to do so. <br /><br />The only exception would be, as in Fred's case, if the writer is facing another kind of deadline. I'm very sorry to hear it, Fred.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-65140996752351505212014-03-11T19:45:45.874-04:002014-03-11T19:45:45.874-04:00I do note that the person referred to a 'team&...I do note that the person referred to a 'team' and that they were getting copy editing and proofing, so my guess is the higher price is the result of it being a 'team'. I can't really speak to the price because I haven't paid for the service myself. JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-21993192721907211612014-03-11T18:52:13.679-04:002014-03-11T18:52:13.679-04:00If he author has a money problem, $3500 is a bit m...If he author has a money problem, $3500 is a bit much to invest in something that may well never make a dime. I have Microsoft Word 2000, which does a great job copyediting (grammar, punctuation, and spelling) for free. My favorite price. I am not a mathematician (well, actually I am) but I believe free is cheaper than $3500. The first rule of business: Minimize costs to get a specific result.<br /><br />The more difficult question is: DOES THE PLOT WORK? Later versions of Microsoft Word may tell you that. Mine does not. If the answer is no (and most of the unpublished stuff I have seen is hopeless) you do not want to spend thousands and thousands of dollars you don’t have on something that is not going to get published anyway. So after your free copyedit (courtesy of MS Word) you need a free critique reader. The first rule of business: Minimize costs to get a specific result. If the plot is DOA, keep your money in your pants.<br /><br />I am probably crazy for saying this, but if you send it to me, I will give you an opinionated opinion free of charge. “Opinionated” means I reject the literary heresy that brilliance versus crapulosity is highly subjective. If possible send a synopsis along with the MS. If the plot makes no sense or has serious problems, that will show up in a synopsis. If it sings like Madonna and dances like Ginger Rogers you may be the next Stephenie Myers, If you can’t state the plot *compellingly* (note that word) in 200 words max then you ... have ... a ... problem. A good plot synopsis glows in the dark. Work on yours until it does. You don’t want to invest thousands on the literary equivalent of dead meat. And yes, there are people out there who will take your money no matter how hopeless the project is. Best wishes in any case.<br /><br />See you on the bestseller list.Steve Stubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13421775912951050610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-30528742742337718112014-03-11T15:30:24.661-04:002014-03-11T15:30:24.661-04:00I feel like that is a VERY high price, especially ...I feel like that is a VERY high price, especially as it's a "remaining $3500", which does not take into account payment already rendered. <br /><br />I also feel that, perhaps, I should go into copyediting. Wowzers.Jennifer R. Donohuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00363886899308588391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-31337857067920315382014-03-11T14:51:46.473-04:002014-03-11T14:51:46.473-04:00Like others here, things about this project puzzle...Like others here, things about this project puzzle me. The editing cost seems too high, unless the writing is so poor that it requires extensive work. That, in turn, makes me wonder if the book will even sell. No sales = all that money wasted. Perhaps those funds are better spent on books or courses on craft and self-editing.<br /><br />Then there's my personal opinion that good fiction should be timeless. A story unfolds in a particular time and place, of course, but if a novel must be published and read by a certain time to be properly enjoyed, well, that doesn't sound right to me. For example, George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four" still has relevancy in 2014. <br /><br />A good novel about a U.S. Presidential election should still be readable and relevant decades after the event. After all, elections happen every four years, and the basic themes surrounding them are fairly enduring and universal.<br /><br />Elissa Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727748060605823895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-28028749828282717532014-03-11T14:38:38.292-04:002014-03-11T14:38:38.292-04:00Paid $750 for a read and suggestions. Editor was ...Paid $750 for a read and suggestions. Editor was superb and was most helpful in assisting me in my rewrite. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-55608941372887226352014-03-11T13:55:23.484-04:002014-03-11T13:55:23.484-04:00Eileen Cook charges a lot less than this and she&#...Eileen Cook charges a lot less than this and she's fantastic. You might be getting what you're paying for, but I doubt it.Joellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04345209675431505161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-15453888714973855932014-03-11T13:14:56.179-04:002014-03-11T13:14:56.179-04:00I've budgeted $1500 for my 170K WIP. Sounds li...I've budgeted $1500 for my 170K WIP. Sounds like I may need more. Though, The thing's been through Betas and critters, and by all accounts reads smooth. Who knows. Whatever the market is willing to pay, right? <br /><br />As for querying for 2017, well, that's why I decided to self-pub. I'll be dead of liver disease or some other ailment by 2017. Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07604208770698139837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-47672599239497471132014-03-11T13:09:25.632-04:002014-03-11T13:09:25.632-04:00That seems high based on the editors I know and ru...That seems high based on the editors I know and run with. <br /><br />I'm equally concerned about "germane to the 2016 election." That smacks of a platform-novel that thinks it is going to influence my vote. So, it is either going to preach red or preach blue or some other party platform. I don't seem myself wanting to read it. Me nor any other of my politically minded friends who it seems would be the audience. That might make it a tough sell. <br /><br />I didn't even allow Tom Clancy to preach to me politically and I'm an O.G., all the way back to Hunt for Red October. Terri Lynn Coophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07290316565247120848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-85474911321855637372014-03-11T12:56:07.086-04:002014-03-11T12:56:07.086-04:00As another freelance editor, I'd definitely sa...As another freelance editor, I'd definitely say that's an overblown price for copy and proofreading! That's what I'd charge for multiple rounds of intense work. Our standard copy editing usually runs $1500-1800 for an average length MS, and we based our rates on EFA's averages. Caitlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02134639096227275905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-39539300671581046092014-03-11T11:21:13.568-04:002014-03-11T11:21:13.568-04:00That's the sort of money I'd charge for mu...That's the sort of money I'd charge for multiple rounds of content editing. And while we don't know the full scope of the project, I'm thinking I'd love to be able to pull that down for a quick copy edit. I could afford steak! Susan at West of Marshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00960492289928788491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43360477542195836262014-03-11T11:06:20.277-04:002014-03-11T11:06:20.277-04:00Very valid point, alaskaravenclaw, and I hesitated...Very valid point, alaskaravenclaw, and I hesitated to say that for the very reason you pointed out. As in all things, I'd "qualify" the person. You absolutely don't want the former teacher who taught Comp I and actually follows those rules... They'll edit the very heart out of it. At least I'd find out if they'd ever read Zinsser...Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-28963562766810761972014-03-11T10:58:02.893-04:002014-03-11T10:58:02.893-04:00I wouldn't go with an English teacher, unless ...I wouldn't go with an English teacher, unless she had some background in editing. You don't want someone who's going to "correct" all the style out of a manuscript. No disrespect meant to English teachers; it's just a different skill set.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-40883327657006031362014-03-11T10:51:21.204-04:002014-03-11T10:51:21.204-04:00I don't do copy editing, except as it occurs d...I don't do copy editing, except as it occurs during developmental editing, which I do perform. My rate for developmental editing is $100 per hour for existing or prior clients, and $150 for new clients. But, I'm very selective in who I take on. Only novels that I think can be made publishable. And, I've been fortunate in that every one I've taken on has either gotten an agent or been published and usually both. I base my fee on the fact that when I was a hairstylist I could easily make $200 an hour--my haircut fee then was $100 before I retired and was booked solidly for months ahead. The places I worked at then are now charging up to $200 and more a cut. As a writing coach, I'm making far less than I did cutting hair, as I would schedule two cuts per hour and also be performing other services at the same time, as color services. What some may not realize, just reading a manuscript takes several hours, without doing any work on it. It's still time. Is it worth the money? Well, I could never afford my rates before I got published and even if I could, I wouldn't have used them. If my mss needed that much work, I think I would have pursued another line of activity... But, I don't blame people who have that much disposable income and feel it's valuable. And, I confess that I "fudge" the time I charge for, and don't charge for all the time spent. I think if I were looking for such an editor, I'd find out the effectiveness of their services and if their clients aren't getting good agents or selling their books, I might look elsewhere... But, for a copy editor, I'd simply look around my town and find a retired English teacher who would probably do a good job for a buck a page. Copy editing is mostly grinding and applying expertise that should have been learned by the eighth grade. Sorry to be blunt, but nowadays it seems as if there are an awful lot of people who think that because they can read they can write. And that they're somehow entitled to being published.Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-37750384029113043162014-03-11T10:43:57.516-04:002014-03-11T10:43:57.516-04:00Sounds way too high to me, but then the author say...Sounds way too high to me, but then the author says they've got a team working on it. Perhaps the manuscript needs that much work.Gayle Carlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783449240138097315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-15308649490364864322014-03-11T10:39:59.103-04:002014-03-11T10:39:59.103-04:00@duBois No, you're right. I was thinking more ...@duBois No, you're right. I was thinking more proofing than substantial copy editing. If it needed more substantial editing, it would take much longer. I just can't see shelling out that much for editing, however, for a manuscript that may or may not be published--and will go through a publisher's copy editors eventually, too. As a writer I would hope that I could get it to a clean state myself, and then if I REALLY needed it, hire someone to be an extra set of eyes to catch errors and so forth (proofing).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122221096601559608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-84727193650007791692014-03-11T10:35:25.583-04:002014-03-11T10:35:25.583-04:00Dclozeau, you shouldn't have paid any money to...Dclozeau, you shouldn't have paid any money to a traditional (or trade) publisher. None. Not one penny. Not for a contract. Not for 2 passes of copy-editing. Not for 2 passes of developmental editing. Not for anything. Money flows to the writer. The publisher pays you, you don't pay the publisher.Jed Cullanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05366003552650790684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-85207428406299028312014-03-11T10:31:46.808-04:002014-03-11T10:31:46.808-04:00I get many manuscripts that authors believe need &...I get many manuscripts that authors believe need "copyediting" when in fact they need both developmental and writing coaching. It sounds like this might be the case here. <br /><br />I usually try to explain what the book needs to the client, but particularly when self-pubbing, they do not want to hear about two rounds of editing. Some of them also do not have the talent, the craft, or the diligence and passion required to bring the book up to professional level.<br /><br />It's hard to say whether this author is being fleeced by an unscrupulous editing firm, or the writing is simply so, shall we say, in need of assistance, that the editor is going well above and beyond normal copyediting.lesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01867886481362543250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-49145127196287499492014-03-11T10:25:16.033-04:002014-03-11T10:25:16.033-04:00"Even if it takes the editor 20 hrs to get th..."Even if it takes the editor 20 hrs to get through it, she's still making $175/hour."<br /><br />I wonder whether there's a UK/US divide on definitions/expectations for editing services. I'd say 20 hours is a reasonable number for a proofread, and a swiftish one, so was startled by the 'even'. I don't think I'm unusually slow, as checked with the publisher I'm closest with, and my numbers are fast for the work. Apparently. My copy-edits, unless particularly short, tend to range from 50-120 hours. And longer on nightmares, when I'm essentially rewriting. <br /><br />... I'm getting the feeling I'm doing something wrong if everyone else is working much faster. *Panic.*duBoishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16405659987315708907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-47640609756282531412014-03-11T10:24:20.532-04:002014-03-11T10:24:20.532-04:00$3500 sounds an awful lot like the entire amount o...$3500 sounds an awful lot like the entire amount of an advance for a second novel (and I'm guessing that means the first is under the bed, not published already, or else this person would know the process better). And that assumes it sells - if not, he/she is out $3500. Bad investment!Wendy Quallshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09738672242498685175noreply@blogger.com