tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post4374518889427117974..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: So, would you like to shoot the other foot too?Janet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-17277474303295956482016-05-21T08:09:04.827-04:002016-05-21T08:09:04.827-04:00There are people of whom it may be said the only t...There are people of whom it may be said the only time they open their mouths is to change feet.Allison Newchurchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00639341318039077271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-89680540226449302122016-05-20T23:20:16.590-04:002016-05-20T23:20:16.590-04:00Steve: I so disagree with you. Mozart and McCartne...Steve: I <i>so</i> disagree with you. Mozart and McCartney were/are geniuses. Different styles of music, but geniuses the same. Likewise DaVinci and Picasso, Austen and Pratchett. When one prefers a certain style, those who create within that style have an elevated status in one's eyes. However, that doesn't mean there aren't equally creative geniuses in styles one doesn't appreciate. I'm not a huge fan of Mozart. I'm more a Debussy guy. But I freely admit that Mozart was a musical genius. I also happen to believe that McCartney is worthy of being listed right next to Mozart on the musical geniuses list. And if that offends anyone, oh well. Call me an ignoramus if it makes you feel better. :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-24098032793779353732016-05-20T23:01:12.556-04:002016-05-20T23:01:12.556-04:00My ego would like to tell you that this is a brill...My ego would like to tell you that this is a brilliant and beautiful book, but I thought I'd let my fans do that instead.Her Grace, Heidi, the Duchess of Knealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818060864422019573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-52019577556807233542016-05-20T23:00:55.336-04:002016-05-20T23:00:55.336-04:00I once took a grad-level writing class at universi...I once took a grad-level writing class at university. Oh the <i>abuse</i> I suffered from the 'literary' writers in there! Severe, terrible abuse. Had this been any other field (science, music, etc), I would have quit and never looked back.<br /><br />But I love writing escapist novels. I write the complete opposite of what those other writers were trying to write. I write books to lift the human heart and make them glad.<br /><br />My dear, gentle, fellow genre authors. Take heart in that our works serve a necessary purpose in the world. We make it a better place.<br /><br />Fellow author and mate of mine SKS Perry occasionally shares his fan mail (with permission) on his FB page. Some of those letters are beautiful. His work has literally saved lives. <br /><br />And that makes it all worthwhile.Her Grace, Heidi, the Duchess of Knealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818060864422019573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-11027109763838215962016-05-20T23:00:16.170-04:002016-05-20T23:00:16.170-04:00What Shaunna said. Sooo what Shaunna said.
I don&...What Shaunna said. Sooo what Shaunna said.<br /><br />I don't like most literary fiction because it's so dang depressing! It's as if the anti-HEA is a genre requirement for literary fiction.<br /><br />For me, the Sadly Ever After (SEA) ending is a detriment to the greatness that literary fiction could be. Personally, I think the promotion of such depression and lack of even a glimmer of hope is dangerous to the human race. Why do people insist on writing it? Don't their own souls get dragged to the nadir of human existence every time they do? If they are doing this to exorcise their own demons, then they need to find a better way of doing so. To write such darkness AND THEN HAND IT TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING is a cruel, cruel thing to do.<br /><br />Write your literary works if you want, but if it's dark and depressing to the very end, I absolutely will not read it. I'm an idealist. I've seen the human race do marvelous things. Our greatness, in spite of our darkness, is what our literary works should reflect. Sure, we can explore the shadow side of our human experience, but do not leave us there. It's a sad place and no benefit for our souls comes from that.<br /><br />Go read Paulo Coelho, Brazilian author. He writes literary works with a message of hope.Her Grace, Heidi, the Duchess of Knealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818060864422019573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-44754229102077785792016-05-20T22:25:53.035-04:002016-05-20T22:25:53.035-04:00Apologies for what is my 4th post, but I've be...Apologies for what is my 4th post, but I've been mulling on this for so long I have to comment again. <br /><br />Janet, what exactly defines 'literary'? I thought I knew, but after reading the comments, I'm now puzzled.AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-7107577164013782762016-05-20T22:17:32.206-04:002016-05-20T22:17:32.206-04:00Blogger Colin Smith said...
“Such value judgments...Blogger Colin Smith said...<br /><br />“Such value judgments make my skin crawl. ... Is Mozart "better" than McCartney?”<br /><br />Good Lord, yes.<br /><br />“Is DaVinci "better" than Picasso?”<br /><br />Are you kidding?<br /><br />“Is Austen "better" than Pratchett?”<br /><br />Is that a rhetorical question?<br /><br />You might as well ask if Beethoven is better than Homer & Jethro. The difference between extraordinary genius and so so is hardly subjective. I think the difference under discussion here is not between literary fiction and commercial fiction, but between literary success and literary pretension. A successful commercial author has bragging rights that an unsuccessful author of any stripe does not. Edna St, Vincent Milay was certainly a literary figure and immensely successful as well as extraordinarily talented/ The original poster had better be the reincarnation of J.-K. Huysmans or don’t even talk to me about being a literary writer. And for crying out loud, no sniffing at successful commercial writers. In other domains that is called “reverse snobbery.”<br />Steve Stubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13421775912951050610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-46038579997548791902016-05-20T20:42:31.426-04:002016-05-20T20:42:31.426-04:00LynnRodz, please thank your FB group for putting o...LynnRodz, please thank your FB group for putting out that chart ! I have printed it off and stuck it in my "must do before querying" notes. Brilliant =)AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-76860999586009894442016-05-20T19:41:02.675-04:002016-05-20T19:41:02.675-04:00Jesus H. Janet, you've occupied my Friday in a...Jesus H. Janet, you've occupied my Friday in a way I hadn't suspected. Damn you. I say we just cut to the chase, organize, and cut that moby dick off! (well, redirect it for our reading leisure.)<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-37248465159025203902016-05-20T17:43:47.973-04:002016-05-20T17:43:47.973-04:00Hank, I nearly peed myself.
Last year I turned a...Hank, I nearly peed myself. <br /><br />Last year I turned a corner and found a wall of stacked books on the sidewalk. Someone must have cleaned out an attic. Half of them were in English. I selected a few gems. One is American Short Stories, by Eugene Current-Garcìa, and Walton R. Patrick, both English professors at the Alabama Polytechnic Institute. The book was printed in 1952 by Scott, Foresman and Company. <br /><br />I almost sent it to the Queen, because she is the hero, but I'd have to pay international postage and I'd spent that money on salted butterscotch candy.<br /><br />Every time I hear the literary-vs-genre argument I get out this book and look at the introductory chapter: The Short Story in America. <br /><br />"Americans were free from England and becoming culturally self conscious." But they did not have American writers. Magazine publishers printed English (British) writers. And pirated their works. <br /><br />Short stories from this period are the root of today's genres.<br /><br />From the introduction:<br /><br />"Ever since the Revolution the patriotic desire to establish a native literature had spurred many Americans into energetic, though largely amateurish, writing of poetry, drama, and fiction; yet, as late as 1820, their failure to impress foreign travelers and critics, who jeered at their lack of artistic and intellectual development, could be summed up in Sidney Smith's wisecrack: "In the four quarters of the globe, who reads an American book?"<br /><br />Then between 1820 and 1860 the American short story flourished and "hundreds of literary periodicals were founded, many of them sincerely dedicated to bringing the work of American writers before the public." The North American Review, Knickerbocker magazine, Graham's and Southern Literary Messenger. Godey's Lady's Book founded in 1830, described as "the first of the great 'slicks... had the largest circulation of any of the monthly's in 1836." <br /><br />Another quote: "The mounting popularity achieved by our earliest short story writers soon raised a problem— the commercialization and standardization of literary art... Professional authors had to meet the demands of of a commercial market if they hoped to succeed financially, they had to write the kind of stories which magazine editors would buy and publish. <br /><br />Here are a few of the authors: Washington Irving, Nathaniel Hawthorne. Herman Melville, Willa Carther, Henry James, Audora Welty, Irwin Shaw, Hemmingway, Katharine Anne Porter. Stick your finger in your nose.<br /><br />So... Back in February I read seven of K'Wan's Hood Rat series. While I was overdosing on the violence and the sex, I had dinner with a friend who is a director of lyric opera. I raved about K'Wan and she raved about Moliere. She said Moliere wasn't much different, he rode around France in a wagon with a bunch of hooligans and performed in the streets. And she said Shakespeare wrote for the thugs. <br /><br />Literary writers. Yowl.<br /><br />angie Brooksby-Arcangiolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000615140577512304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-87491911682564181152016-05-20T17:31:40.156-04:002016-05-20T17:31:40.156-04:00I haven't read all the work of every client of...I haven't read all the work of every client of Janet's, but I've read enough to know that her clients seem to have a few things in common: they're highly intelligent, write beautifully crafted sentences, have a more than passable command of the English language, are masterful storytellers. So while they might write "commercial" fiction, it's understandable that a querier might sense a higher bar of pickiness here, and might even mistake it as a preference for "literary" work. Whatever the hell that means.<br /><br />I didn't see this as an insult to Janet or her clients-- perhaps the opposite. <br /><br />Even so. Sheesh. It was definitely insulting and a snobby, ill-advised thing to say. It's the self-deprecating insecurity in there that leaves it one small step from being haughty. There's a difference between a big ego and a strong one.<br /><br />I've heard some agents want writers to state the genre, but "literary" is not a genre. Why a writer would even attempt this kind of self-qualification in a query, or anywhere, is beyond me.<br /><br /><br />Colin and Julie: Both those videos were hilarious. Thanks for the laughter today.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-73292847729578763572016-05-20T16:57:40.419-04:002016-05-20T16:57:40.419-04:00I grew up reading mainly science fiction and fanta...I grew up reading mainly science fiction and fantasy. Come to think of it, that's still the bulk of my reading diet. It was very much looked down upon by mainstream folk back then. Much of it still is, if to a lesser extent now.<br />But you know what? I don't care. Didn't then, won't ever. I'll try to help people realize what they're missing, but I won't take it personally. Such attitudes tell you far more about the other person than about you.<br />Go read you [approved genre]. I might read some of that, too. But mainly I'll be reading about spaceships, dragons, space aliens, and faeries. And loving every minute of it.<br />Strangely enough, that's what I often write, too.Miles O'Nealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15566986720292847069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-44994593219964378902016-05-20T16:50:30.540-04:002016-05-20T16:50:30.540-04:00Huzzah! World Whiskey Day! Who knew?
Maybe the qu...Huzzah! World Whiskey Day! Who knew?<br /><br />Maybe the querier should have classified the work as commercial fiction "but I can spell real good and sometimes use big words."<br />I'm guessing (giving the querier the benefit of the doubt) that the comment had more to do with insecurity than arrogance, but still, not the kind of comment to inspire confidence for a potential agent.<br /><br />As someone with an MFA (and the years in restaurant/coffee mines work to prove it) all I can say is SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! We were a pretty snotty bunch in art school, but now I'm on the Panda Satire train, and proud of it. Some people look at what I'm doing now with a raised eyebrow, but I am following where my creative heart leads me. All of what my fine art training has led me to what I'm now doing, so who am I to sneer at low versus high art?<br /><br />Happy Friday, everyone!Panda in Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14160375490647791433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-34745215359223343542016-05-20T16:08:23.113-04:002016-05-20T16:08:23.113-04:00Heeee! And... Christina, I'm chortling at your...Heeee! And... Christina, I'm chortling at your comment at my place. You're the best. Donnaevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09026536210749494257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-90433894565315311912016-05-20T16:05:01.843-04:002016-05-20T16:05:01.843-04:00Actually Christina - there is no OP. (yeah, we...Actually Christina - there is no OP. (yeah, we'd be dancing around the bonfire of OP's flaming body if there were)<br /><br />The post is a snippet of a query and Janet used it b/c...well. They said what they said. I do wonder though...is OP lurking? Is OP cringing? Is OP cussing us all out for dishing out our opinions?<br /><br />Personally, I don't think some of the classics mentioned could get pubbed today if no one ever heard of them. Closest might be McCarthy - but he writes about such twisted stuff, I feel the need to drink holy water after reading it.<br /><br />OT: Anyone type words, then laugh b/c your hands are off by a letter or so, or your brain is just misfiring and you type a word like pubbled for published? Yeah, my brain has flat lined after editing for HOURS.Donnaevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09026536210749494257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-26461611631831534252016-05-20T15:51:21.288-04:002016-05-20T15:51:21.288-04:00I didn't read all the comments, so forgive me,...I didn't read all the comments, so forgive me, but I read enough that we could probably roast a marshmallow next to poor Opie. <br /><br />I don't see OP as intentionally snobbish. And as one who knows too well the flavor of both feet, I utterly sympathize. I can tell you from my own experience in college (especially at the post-graduate level) the ONLY thing considered worth writing was literary fiction. Sure, the unspoken code said, you could "sell out" and write commercial for (gasp) genre. I wonder sometimes if that wasn't pure job security stuff. I mean, if anybody can write a book ... even without an MFA (again, gasp), then who needs literary profs? An entire beard grooming industry could be jeopardized.<br /><br />What I see Opie saying is, "I strove for literary excellence here, and - dare I say it - I think I did pretty damn good. And yet, hopefully, it's not SO beautiful that the plot does not also grip you." <br /><br />Also, for the record, I never did finish that MFA. I had a bunch of awesome kids who needed me home, and I've never regretted it. But with SO much information available online now (thank you Janet) I think the only thing I really miss from those days are the writing workshops. It's hard to find good critique partners, especially if you live in the boonies, as I do. Christina Seinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18411040428007697691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-6619007521749772722016-05-20T15:43:35.206-04:002016-05-20T15:43:35.206-04:00I guess this sort of thing is equivalent to descri...I guess this sort of thing is equivalent to describing what you look like to someone across the table from you at a speed dating event. Even if you do it in modest terms, you still come off as pretty stupid.Timothy Lowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07514224628760035696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-52915730049759160362016-05-20T15:32:45.439-04:002016-05-20T15:32:45.439-04:00Julie W. gave us this link
So there we were, wand...Julie W. gave us this link <br />So there we were, wandering around being special, and beautiful, and literary<br /><br />I want to go there. A sand beach, turquoise water, long legged beauties, a beer, and a barbershop quartet. What else could you want?Joseph S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07437663031050410028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-28872776704933416442016-05-20T15:27:06.255-04:002016-05-20T15:27:06.255-04:00Oh, Claire, I'm not talking about reading it, ...Oh, Claire, I'm not talking about reading it, I'm talking about people who get snobbish about writing it. Okay, and people who get snobbish about reading it.<br /><br />If that's what you prefer, no worries. But a person who judges other people negatively for reading other genres? That's just wearing your ass for a hat.Cherylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09128656624170294636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-85236503406408513452016-05-20T15:09:28.517-04:002016-05-20T15:09:28.517-04:00I think it might be good to consider that much of ...I think it might be good to consider that much of what we consider literary today was considered popular fiction when it was first published and frowned upon. Poe wasn't accepted by many. <br /><br />Robert E. Lee wrote to his wife from Texas admonishing her not to let their daughters read novels which would spoil their minds and instead read only classics and poetry as was proper for young ladies. This was not an uncommon opinion.<br /><br />I don't particularly care what label is slapped on a book if it captures my heart. Just don't tell me I am somehow lesser because I don't appreciate something with a certain label. I don't owe you my love. You have to earn it.Julie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-66226923779673594082016-05-20T15:05:42.216-04:002016-05-20T15:05:42.216-04:00At the conference earlier this year, the moderator...At the conference earlier this year, the moderator read the first page of submitted manuscripts. Four agents listened and were instructed to raise their hand when they would reject the submission. Attendees were told to put the genre at the top of the page. One person denoted his or her entry as something like “Literary Romance.” Bam! Rejected before the first sentence.<br /><br />Two agents jumped all over this. “How dare you call your novel Literary. It is not for you to decide that. It is for us to decide.”<br /><br />I felt bad for the writer. She classified it the best she knew how. <br /><br />Ironically, one of the agents gave me her card. She called herself a “Literary Agent.” I wanted to make a joke about it, but she would have been the one to decide if it was funny, and I didn’t risk it. <br />Joseph S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07437663031050410028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-41436853977032166892016-05-20T14:48:43.796-04:002016-05-20T14:48:43.796-04:00We have an early entrant in the weekly subheader s...We have an early entrant in the weekly subheader sweepstakes: "Yea well, fuck that noise."<br />The Penultimushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15970222257381550109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-26265565959539009022016-05-20T14:44:25.785-04:002016-05-20T14:44:25.785-04:00Craig, I can still make a mean margarita. One out ...Craig, I can still make a mean margarita. One out of five isn't bad. And don't get me bragging about my lemon tarts. Too bad Her Grace, the Duchess of Yowl isn't an agent, her ears would perk up. "Lemon tarts, did someone say lemon tarts? I want to be her agent!"<br /><br />Julie, our admin from our closed FB group put that chart out. Great chart btw. We have a whole discussion going on about it because someone asked if it was necessary to read the entire archives because as she says, "There's a lot!" Several of us said, yep...Janet would be proud of our comments.<br />LynnRodzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10796099106913990163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-81090064919899317182016-05-20T14:21:03.367-04:002016-05-20T14:21:03.367-04:00I'm glad the Shark didn't have her teeth a...I'm glad the Shark didn't have her teeth all the way out for this query writer. It sounded to me like a clumsy attempt to convey how he sees himself as a writer. (And at least he didn't write a fiction novel.)<br /><br />As an academic historian trying to break down the barrier between scholarly and popular, I'm wary of categories.Theresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18165072684559960801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54024497356450261692016-05-20T14:13:21.149-04:002016-05-20T14:13:21.149-04:00Third and final comment of the day. After thinking...Third and final comment of the day. After thinking about this for hours, I've got the following takeaway (based on reading everyone else's comments). Genre fiction can have prose that makes you cry, but "literary page turner" is an oxymoron. Better to query as commercial and let your writing speak for itself.Shaunnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542124673668776592noreply@blogger.com