tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post2748362700707202686..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: The opportunity cost of a long-ass novelJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-81197018914198686872019-11-27T20:08:12.091-05:002019-11-27T20:08:12.091-05:00"The other thing you need to consider: if you..."The other thing you need to consider: if your novel is twice as long as most trade novels<br />(ie 170K/2 = 85K)<br />you're asking me to take you on instead of two other not-long-ass novels.<br /><br />Instead of signing two novels of 85K each, I'm signing one."<br /><br />Is this because an agent's work is proportional to the word count? I can understand that a longer book requires more reading, maybe edits before going to a publisher, but surely not double. Otherwise picture books would be the business to be in. Instead of one 85k book, why not 100 picture books?Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167224971685011247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-79204897598421050712019-10-31T15:17:36.784-04:002019-10-31T15:17:36.784-04:00Btw, I loved Amadeus! I just might watch it this w...Btw, I loved Amadeus! I just might watch it this weekend if I find the time. LynnRodzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10796099106913990163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-69244847079713628782019-10-31T15:09:59.748-04:002019-10-31T15:09:59.748-04:00I had the opposite problem than most writers here....I had the opposite problem than most writers here. I thought my novel was finished when it topped off at 57,000 words. I had said all I needed to say. I mean, Love Story (yes, I'm going back that far) was only 187 pages. The Bridges of Madison County was 171, and the Notebook was 207 pages. Those stories, like mine, were more than a love story, they were tragedies.<br /><br />When I sent my manuscript to my beta readers, they told me I needed more detail, more description,...the story takes place in Paris, after all. They were right and now it's finished at 70,000 words. Sometimes less is not more.<br />LynnRodzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10796099106913990163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-57754657054461554522019-10-31T01:53:09.156-04:002019-10-31T01:53:09.156-04:00My WIP's first draft was 189k. Second draft 15...My WIP's first draft was 189k. Second draft 150k. Third draft 120k and I thought I couldn't cut any more.<br /><br />It's currently 93k.<br /><br />There were so many words I didn't need.NLiuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00184714542401822508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-23466913912221420632019-10-30T22:00:49.193-04:002019-10-30T22:00:49.193-04:00
My clothes fit as tight as if I was a blood-bank-...<br />My clothes fit as tight as if I was a blood-bank-dwelling mosquito..........<br /><br />So glad I write MG. I have no problem with a 35-50k word count =)<br /><br />Dena Pawlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444683810125395220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-24252020185490049892019-10-30T21:12:51.145-04:002019-10-30T21:12:51.145-04:00My current WiP is too long. If word count truly is...My current WiP is too long. If word count truly is the <i>only</i> thing amiss, I will celebrate finishing the story I wanted to tell. Then I'll happily gather bouquets of rejections while working on a more concise novel.Elissa Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727748060605823895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-60863580806936835922019-10-30T19:48:05.238-04:002019-10-30T19:48:05.238-04:00I never considered that a long novel by one would ...I never considered that a long novel by one would two with shorter ones. Fascinating insight. Glad I write at the 75k end :)AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43894936951935816532019-10-30T17:42:45.332-04:002019-10-30T17:42:45.332-04:00I remember the Pleistocene fondly, KDJames, and I...I remember the Pleistocene fondly, <b> KDJames</b>, and I'm old enough to remember laying out our college newspaper in this newfangled software called Aldus Pagemaker (2.0, baby!) in MS-DOS. But we still had to carve out the columns with X-acto knives, run them through the wax roller, hunch over the light table with line tape and paste up the galleys. My editor is now a serious Washington Post journalist with a Pulitzer Prize, but to me he'll always be the sweet goofball in duck shoes who consoled me when I missed a mortally embarrassing mistake in a headline.<br /><br />I've decided I got the five-character thing from the typing speed tests I had to take when I was applying for clerical jobs -- that's how word count was standardized for those tests (and maybe still is?). Can't wait to break out the ten-dollar words!Fearless Reiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14380936599156619260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-89973675756391967982019-10-30T17:28:05.329-04:002019-10-30T17:28:05.329-04:00I just finished J. Michael Straczynski's autob...I just finished J. Michael Straczynski's autobiography, <b>Becoming Superman: My Journey from Poverty to Hollywood</b>. In a brief segment, high school student Stracynski took short stories to a showcase for promising high school artists (mainly painters and musicians). A man (who Straczynski later learned was Rod Serling) sat in a lawn chair and read two short stories. <br /><br />Rod Serling commented after reading them: "You have a substantial talent for someone your age. Let me give you two pieces of advice. First, cut every third adjective. Second, never let them stop you from telling the story you want to tell."<br /><br /><br />P.S. My Goodreads review of the book begins <br /><br />"Every writer, wannabe writer, or writer tempted to give it up MUST read J. Michael Straczynski’s autobiography, “BECOMING SUPERMAN: My Journey from Poverty to Hollywood. Everyone else SHOULD read his book.""Joseph S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12127072618635002530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-87323287530388623162019-10-30T16:51:20.528-04:002019-10-30T16:51:20.528-04:00Wonderful column. I love how you presented this in...Wonderful column. I love how you presented this in the framing of opportunity cost and that the relationship is two ways. So well done.JasonTudorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607904887723923958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-36352194763651700882019-10-30T16:19:50.170-04:002019-10-30T16:19:50.170-04:00Fearless-- back in the Pleistocene when mss were s...Fearless-- back in the Pleistocene when mss were submitted on paper, writers talked about page count, not word count. There was a strict format where one page counted as 250 words, and 400 pages was a 100K novel. Back when a 100K novel was standard. A page of sharp witty dialog with a ton of white space "counted" the same as a page dense with description. They took up the same amount of space in a printed book. I don't know how many *actual* words were in a 100K novel, but perhaps it was closer to the 85-90K that is more acceptable today?<br /><br />I don't recall anyone ever mentioning an average of 5 characters per word, but I can imagine your chagrin. Perhaps similar to mine when I discovered everyone else was typing double-spaced pages and mine were single. *sigh* It did wonders for my sense of productivity, though, to suddenly have twice the output I thought I'd had.<br /><br />Oh! One place word length matters, and might be averaged, is in newspaper, where columns are strictly measured by size. Carolynn can attest to this, I'm sure. My editor told me my limit for a 200-word column was 180, because I tended to use longer words.<br /><br />KDJameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10534864045227102030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-68222670908359862562019-10-30T16:16:20.240-04:002019-10-30T16:16:20.240-04:00Once again missing the point of the overall post, ...Once again missing the point of the overall post, I'm struck by this visual:<br /><br />"So if you want me to consider a long-ass novel your query better be as taut as a blood bank dwelling mosquito."<br /><br />Let's say I'm a blood bank dwelling mosquito. Many people have said it before now. Wouldn't I be bloated?<br /><br />It reminds me of a Rolling Stone article on John Mellencamp. A band member interpreted a line from "Ain't That America" and had a completely different definition that Mellencamp. The line was "I remember when you could stop a clock."<br /><br />The band member thought the person was so ugly they broke a clock. Mellencamp said, No, this person is so beautiful, they make time stand still. <br /><br />So, yeah, word count and violins on TV should both be pared. But not paired.<br /><br />John Davis Frainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020019400599228492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-9960432806788389112019-10-30T15:09:03.685-04:002019-10-30T15:09:03.685-04:00Karl,
Your leftover flesh craft fair made me lol....Karl,<br /><br />Your leftover flesh craft fair made me lol.Gypmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10023108950501721303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-39213072887686702952019-10-30T14:38:22.835-04:002019-10-30T14:38:22.835-04:00I think we authors make the mistake of saying &quo...I think we authors make the mistake of saying "it's all necessary!" because all of the plot elements feel necessary (even if they're not). But that doesn't mean every single word is necessary. You can get away with keeping scenes if you cut unnecessary words within those scenes. <br /><br />The flash fiction contests have definitely helped with my writing, though! I didn't expect to learn so much. :)Bethany Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12829932931010851406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-2954213497911419742019-10-30T14:15:14.652-04:002019-10-30T14:15:14.652-04:00I don’t know if I want to be known as the author o...I don’t know if I want to be known as the author of a short-ass novel. What a quandary. Brendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08941043145591116608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-90132299018554584162019-10-30T13:41:54.629-04:002019-10-30T13:41:54.629-04:00Curious. I thought the only object of a query was ...Curious. I thought the only object of a query was to entice the want for more. To me they are still a different beast than the novel itself.<br /><br />I start heading towards the words THE END at about 100k on my first drafts. Sometimes the second draft gets longer, sometimes shorter, as I gain more depth at writing that particular piece.<br /><br />I never think about the query until I am on the third draft. Sometimes the fourth draft is modified because of the query.<br /><br />Current novel collecting form rejections(actually just one, right now) is 97kCraig Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07157301156577795781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-16086500330202622622019-10-30T13:39:13.598-04:002019-10-30T13:39:13.598-04:00I also wrote the long-ass novel at 185K, and was c...I also wrote the long-ass novel at 185K, and was convinced I needed every word. Then I went back to school and got a BSc and my writing got a lot more economic - took another stab at the WIP and got it down to 126K. Sharing it with an author whose work I respect convinced me to hack at it some more - took it to 103K. She was convinced I could trim yet more fat - and so I did, and it now stands at 83K. One more edit and I bet I won't have anything left to worry about publishing! Seriously though...it can be done. I think I enjoy ruthless editing better than writing now!Linda Shantzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12802634921051188131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-90181463258464281762019-10-30T13:14:00.920-04:002019-10-30T13:14:00.920-04:00Working on getting that long-ass novel down. From ...Working on getting that long-ass novel down. From 111K to 107K so far, baby!!<br /><br />It's like cleaning/ purging your home. You have to compartmentalize the emotional attachment you have with your own writing, enough to be able to say, "I don't need that any more." <br /><br />So much easier to do with other people's writing. <br /><br /><b>Mister Furkles,</b> 'excessive violins' - what classical humor you have.Lennon Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570629350169504234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-15230902962267375462019-10-30T12:05:46.869-04:002019-10-30T12:05:46.869-04:00I was particularly excited to see today’s topic, s...I was particularly excited to see today’s topic, since I most writers I’ve met never even consider thinking about their writing in economic terms. Point was spot on too. On that theme, I do actually have something relevant to add! <br /><br />In high school my AP Econ semester project was on the marginal utility of donuts. I fed donuts of all types, from maple bars to apple fritters, to high school students and asked how much they enjoyed each one. The results clearly demonstrated that the utility of additional donuts declined exponentially with each one… except crullers(1). After a dozen tests the conclusion was inescapable; the light, airy nature of the cruller differentiates it from a donut so greatly that it can be thoroughly appreciated even after a trio of maple bars(2).<br /><br />Now all that remains is to apply my conclusion to writing. With that in mind, I’ve outline a new novel called WIZARDS OF BONE AND MEET. It’s set in the far future after a technological apocalypse, with two interweaving plots.<br /><br />The first is about a merciless tribe of cannibals lead by an order of war-priests called the Wizards of Bone. These wizards use forbidden technology to carve the flesh from captured warriors, transforming them into terrifying battle skeletons robbed of the ability to so much as scream, let alone disobey. It’ll be as bleak and hardcore as the rage-baby of Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome and the album ‘Epicus Doomicus Metallicus.’<br /> <br />The second plot will be about a cripplingly shy village matchmaker in the tribe, able to bring any other couple together but unable to even speak to his one true love. Until, that is, she’s chosen to judge a craft fair where entrants have to make art using the flesh left over from battle skeleton creation. You’ll be on the edge of your seat to see if this Wizard of Meet(3) can express himself though man-jerky sculpture! It’ll be so light, romantic, and generally fluffy you won’t even notice that the entire novel clocks in at just over 500k. <br /><br />(1) By assuming all donuts were created equal I also proved I sucked at designing experiments. <br /><br />(2) And if I understand tax law, you can go test this yourself then take the expense off your taxes because now eating donuts relates back to editing somehow! <br /><br />(3) I regret nothing. NOTHING!<br />Karl Henwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08608853056544317000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-26237244372650239902019-10-30T10:26:56.281-04:002019-10-30T10:26:56.281-04:00And E. M. Goldsmith, I beg to differ that you are ...And <b>E. M. Goldsmith</b>, I beg to differ that you are not exceptional, too. I hope things are going well in the query trenches.Fearless Reiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14380936599156619260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-10901728675886830832019-10-30T10:15:51.240-04:002019-10-30T10:15:51.240-04:00Speaking of word count, I'm eating crow for br...Speaking of word count, I'm eating crow for breakfast, and the maple syrup isn't helping it go down easier. I recommended Janet's blog to my writing group yesterday for obvious reasons, including the talented commentariat, and I shared how the flash fiction contests have helped me cultivate conciseness (in fiction, if not in blog comments). We got to talking about word count and I confidently informed them that word processing programs calculate your word count by tracking the total number of characters (including spaces) and dividing the total by five to get an average because, I swear to God(iva), they used to, back when they were hewn from granite and powered by gerbils and I was a budding typist. I tested my claim last night and found I'm dead wrong. And here I've been stingier than Hemingway with my characters because I thought any five of them counted as a word. From now on, all of my flash fiction entries are gonna feature supercalifragilisticexpialidocious antidisestablishmentarianists who reside in Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu and suffer disconsolately from pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis.<br /><br />So this newfound knowledge got me to wondering: do agents and editors assess length by word count alone, or do they also look at the overall page count? Seems like 50,000 words by Faulkner will take up more space (and maybe reading/editing time) than 50,000 words by Hemingway. Does word length matter? Should I refrain from naming my MG protagonist Petronellajosephinamagdalenadonatellafelixiana Buttonwheezer?Fearless Reiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14380936599156619260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-64225664508954316592019-10-30T10:11:00.100-04:002019-10-30T10:11:00.100-04:00Mister Furkles and Colin... And then there's S...<b>Mister Furkles</b> and <b>Colin</b>... And then there's <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF6FluTRdD0" rel="nofollow"><b>Susan Sarandon playing the cello for Jack Nicholson</b></a> in WITCHES OF EASTWICK.Kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09868642232827730189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-68455838811150549322019-10-30T09:19:29.507-04:002019-10-30T09:19:29.507-04:00Soooo QOTKU
If 170/2 = 2 not long-ass novels of 8...Soooo QOTKU<br /><br />If 170/2 = 2 not long-ass novels of 85k then clearly a 40k novel equals at least 3 other 40k magnificent novels (if we stick to the 170k mark) that you can totally take on and sell for gazillions right? ;) <br /><br />Great news for those of us who are perpetual underwriters!<br /><br />Happy Hump Day!Megan Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752842865397799428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-27763651585492139762019-10-30T09:16:44.131-04:002019-10-30T09:16:44.131-04:00Julie I think you'll be good at 139,000 for RC...<b>Julie</b> I think you'll be good at 139,000 for RC. I do think that you will be one of those exceptions. And you have agents who are aware of your work.<br /><br />You have been working on your tale for years and years. You have put in endless research and gone through all the revision and beta-reading to make your book sing. And if it sings at 139,000 words, then so be it. <br /><br />That is a different scenario than the eager-beaver, role-playing game addict turned fantasy writer who over-writes and turns in an early draft as a finished product. I bet agents get tons and tons from these type writers in their inbox which raises the high-word count flag (along with the obvious extra cost to producing a longer book). I think you are an exception to this rule because you know and understand the rule. These other writers are not even aware of the word-count guideline. <br /><br />For myself, I am not exceptional. Yet. However, I was able to do all my beautiful world-building in the 95,000 range. I do have some longer books in the arsenal but will wait until I establish myself. Hopefully, as one of those million-selling, always earning out authors that make debut writers think, <br /><br /><b>hey, my 275,000 word book is fine. Just fine. Look at Brandon Sanderson. </b><br /><br /><br /><br />And I should not be commenting before I have finished my morning coffee. Pardon me, all. So sleep deprived. E.M. Goldsmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387494005655553037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-71214227108613676422019-10-30T08:55:17.966-04:002019-10-30T08:55:17.966-04:00Mister Furkles: Excessive violins. Love it. ;)<b>Mister Furkles</b>: Excessive violins. Love it. ;)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.com