tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post1793048239067693731..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: Yog's LawJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-10821352989602719452017-05-10T12:43:52.022-04:002017-05-10T12:43:52.022-04:00Always welcome, AJ. :)Always welcome, AJ. :)BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-57782467864107338472017-05-10T12:16:24.569-04:002017-05-10T12:16:24.569-04:00That makes sense. Thanks, BJ.That makes sense. Thanks, <b>BJ</b>. AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-27651065716604807322017-05-10T12:06:46.788-04:002017-05-10T12:06:46.788-04:00AJ: Check the Australian equivalent of the AAR, th...AJ: Check the Australian equivalent of the AAR, the <a href="https://austlitagentsassoc.com/about-2/code-of-practice" rel="nofollow">Australian Literary Agents' Association</a>. It says:<br />4. No reading fee shall be charged to clients.<br />5. A one-off fee for specific advice (e.g. on a contract) may be charged on a per-hour basis. No such fee shall be charged without the client’s prior consent in writing.<br />10. No member may accept non-disclosed profit in connection with any transaction.<br /><br />#10 means, I believe, if you pay for this up front, with your conference fee, it is most likely going to go to the conference, not the agent.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-19073295810462708152017-05-10T12:05:32.357-04:002017-05-10T12:05:32.357-04:00Aha! Thank you :) I've been silently wondering...Aha! Thank you :) I've been silently wondering for ages.Cheyennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17890805854685375778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-87123424852135130402017-05-10T12:03:16.762-04:002017-05-10T12:03:16.762-04:00Cheyenne, a NORMAN stands for "no reply means...<b>Cheyenne</b>, a NORMAN stands for "no reply means a no"AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-85069484460713397002017-05-10T11:50:11.802-04:002017-05-10T11:50:11.802-04:00All Kontestants, chosen are not, receive free slus...<i>All Kontestants, chosen are not, receive free slush tips from the hosts and the camaraderie that develops from entering contests together.</i><br /><br />Sooo ... I'd be paying for camaraderie? ;)<br /><br /><b>Elissa M</b>, I shouldn't laugh but it's how I feel with contests, too ("I'd rather just email queries directly to agents and get my form rejections for free."). The thing is, many contest organisers gather success stories of entrants that scored agents afterwards, giving me the sense I'm truly missing out on a superior method of grabbing agents' attention. But from previous online contests I've entered, none have resulted in a full request that garnered more than a Norman (I still don't know what this stands for, but I know what it means!) or a form rejection with zero applicable feedback. Thus, slushpile is just as good, I suppose?Cheyennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17890805854685375778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-38834743744534610582017-05-10T10:08:48.653-04:002017-05-10T10:08:48.653-04:00So if it's a gamble (i.e. you may not get anyt...So if it's a gamble (i.e. you may not get anything for your money), be well aware of the risk before you pay.<br /><br />It's that simple. Paying for critiques, editing, pitch opportunities, and conferences are NOT gambles. You will get a service for your money. But raffles, paid contests, and 'reader fees' are gambles. Some are worth the money - most are not. <br /><br />If you truly just want to donate to a cause without expectation of reward, then gamble away!JEN Garretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11223454346963493011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-47026974895098574392017-05-10T07:57:38.082-04:002017-05-10T07:57:38.082-04:00Janet, I have a question about payments.
At conf...Janet, I have a question about payments. <br /><br />At conference this year there are a limited number of manuscript assessments available. The cost is $150 (so not cheap) and for that the editor or agent will read the first 15 pages of your submission (minimum 3 chaps) and spend 15 mins 1-on-1 with you to discuss. It's not clear where that money is going (ie to the organisation, the editor/agent or both). Alternatively you can pitch for free. <br /><br />Is this normal for this sort of thing? Would payment (regardless of where the money lands) for a manuscript assessment violate AAR ethics? Interested in your take.<br /><br />I remember Yog's Law from your earlier post and it has always stuck with me. I knew a writer who had submitted a ms to a "publisher" who thought it had great potential and offered to "critique" the ms for a fee... and naturally offered publishing packages to follow. No matter how much I tried to explain it was vanity publishing and she would be out of pocket she wouldn't listen. She felt I had sour grapes because I hadn't been offered a publishing deal and she had. Needless to say she spent a fortune and didn't sell a book. She disappeared from writing circles after that.AJ Blythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04529233142099749005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-90925258964945871182017-05-09T13:41:16.130-04:002017-05-09T13:41:16.130-04:00I've had my head buried in the Rain Crow and I...I've had my head buried in the Rain Crow and I'm trying to avoid my verbosity anyway, but this strikes a nerve. I like the people who started these contests, but when they started asking for donations, I went sour. I won't enter any more. <br /><br />To be clear, they aren't paying the agents. That's my understanding anyway. What they are saying is they spend a lot of time setting up these contests, so they'd like to be compensated for their time. Well, I think all the ones involved are authors. They have garnered quite a loyal following through these contests. This is pretty good advertising. <br /><br />Many of the writers who volunteer to be mentors are getting some pretty valuable publicity by reading these queries. They sift through them and then send the ones they deem the best on to the agents.<br /><br />If the hosts are finding this too time-consuming they should either do fewer contests or quietly set up a donation button on the web page.<br /><br />I'm not paying to enter a cattle call contest.<br /><br /> <br /><br /> Julie Weathershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13725236516593676381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-75214444238202516992017-05-09T12:53:13.513-04:002017-05-09T12:53:13.513-04:00The biggest different, IMO, between this and payin...The biggest different, IMO, between this and paying for a critique at the conference is that at a conference, you know exactly what you'll get. There are no "chosen" writers. You're signing up for all of the usual conference programming and meals, plus an optional (paid) critique of a specific number of pages. It's easy to look up who is organizing the conference and they tend to be not-for-profit writing organizations. <br /><br />Conferences don't really promise anything other than if you come to learn, the programming should be insightful (and your mileage will vary depending on the conference and if it's a good fit for you--but there should a few nuggets of wisdom regardless). No "oh you might get feedback from a bunch people and maybe even a request for an agent who will read you first!" The Sleepy Onehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17406738871201908077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-74437899693516457982017-05-09T12:29:26.957-04:002017-05-09T12:29:26.957-04:00It seems for some of these contests, the main bene...It seems for some of these contests, the main benefit is that you know when you'll hear back by.Morgan Hazelwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17713547255894719134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-73397460054842452762017-05-09T12:24:52.562-04:002017-05-09T12:24:52.562-04:00Colin, what the commission applies to is covered i...<b>Colin</b>, what the commission applies to is covered in the agency agreement. Mine specifically excludes grants, prizes and speaking fees. I'm not sure all agreements specify exclusions - it is more "the agent is entitled to a commission of x% for domestic sales, y% of subsidiary sales, z% of foreign sales" and so on.Amy Schaeferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263719891092841767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-23583930558615146072017-05-09T12:10:42.269-04:002017-05-09T12:10:42.269-04:00BJ, I had the same reaction to that line about the...<b>BJ</b>, I had the same reaction to that line about the slush pile.<br /><br />Considering how much trouble some agents seem to have with the whole concept of clearing the pile, I'd have a real problem entering any contest--regardless of whether there's a payment involved--if it's not absolutely 100% guaranteed that the contest entries are separate from the slush piles.<br /><br />I mean, if I enter a contest, I certainly don't expect to wait four months for a Norman. I can do that without the contest!Casey Karphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10592351859886981726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-14944225538414673582017-05-09T11:56:50.480-04:002017-05-09T11:56:50.480-04:00Interesting. I've never seen this, and I'v...Interesting. I've never seen this, and I've seen a lot.<br /><br />It's not unusual to charge fees to enter contests, but I will rarely enter a contest that charges fees. And I would definitely never enter a query contest that charges fees.<br /><br />This line caught my attention: "Some agents even read requested contest entries before the rest of the slush pile!" <br /><br />What the heck does that mean? Does that mean that these are winding up in some agents' slush anyway? Then what's the use of the contest?<br /><br />As for a way to collect money to run the contests, they should crowdsource it, rather than ask contestants to pay (or not). Despite all their assurances, there will always be that doubt in the minds of those who don't get an agent out of this.BJ Muntainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12977414826388000094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-19646376999962882612017-05-09T11:49:04.337-04:002017-05-09T11:49:04.337-04:00Thanks, Janet!
Thanks, Janet!<br />Lennon Farishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570629350169504234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-18040904300290648262017-05-09T11:48:46.434-04:002017-05-09T11:48:46.434-04:00"It might also help you to know that they can..."It might also help you to know that they can't set up a pay for query critique service with agents if the agents are members of AAR. The AAR Canon of Ethics is VERY clear on that (it's #8 on the list)"<br /><br />There are a number of endeavors going on in the writing communities involving payment to agents that I've wondered about relative to payment for services, such as query and first pages critiques or career consults. A few agents have complete businesses running that revolve around these things. I don't begrudge anybody the opportunity to be entrepreneurial, but the ethics seem particularly fuzzy around some of these. Even major unnamed companies will say, SupremeAgent reserves the right to request pages, always leaving the hope that buying the service will put agent eyes on your lovely work.<br /><br />Getting a dream agent seems such an uphill road that most writers are vulnerable to anything that unlocks a door, including paying even a hefty charge.<br />Sherry Howardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04326605891373049617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-7646134392420631782017-05-09T10:10:41.752-04:002017-05-09T10:10:41.752-04:00...the ability to query agents they otherwise may ...<i>...the ability to query agents they otherwise may not have connected with.</i><br /><br />Is this mendacious or what? Seems to me a writer has the ability to query agents regardless of having <i>connected with them</i> prior to sending a query. <br /><br />Most of the contributors to the blog write better than these contest organizers. And, fellow contributors, you are simply offering your comments without the benefit of reviewing the day after writing them. <br /><br />Mister Furkleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07156977719916770984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-47282773315336634782017-05-09T09:58:48.295-04:002017-05-09T09:58:48.295-04:00"I also note with some acerbity that whoever ..."I also note with some acerbity that whoever wrote that explanation really doesn't know how to pitch for shit."<br /><br />LOL. Janet, thank you for this line. It made my morning, you have no idea...Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02288010060936146108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-53760372690642314252017-05-09T09:45:04.043-04:002017-05-09T09:45:04.043-04:00I think what bothers me most about this is these f...I think what bothers me most about this is these folks will still get plenty of entries, thus giving incentive to others to also start charging for a "chance" to have one's query seen by an agent.<br /><br />I'd rather just email queries directly to agents and get my form rejections for free.Elissa Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727748060605823895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-80170574335563855372017-05-09T09:41:58.336-04:002017-05-09T09:41:58.336-04:00Poo--I knew there was something else. I mentioned ...Poo--I knew there was something else. I mentioned this yesterday, but it was late in the day for most commenters, so I'll say it again:<br /><br />If you want to be included on the <a href="http://www.colindsmith.com/cmw.html" rel="nofollow">List of Blog Readers and Their Blogs</a>, just drop me an email (my address is linked in my Blogger profile). This list is a great way to get to know fellow commenters, and makes for a useful distraction when you hit the 20K mark in your WiP. ;)<br /><br />Also, as you wade through the blog archives, please point out to me any articles you think deserve to be immortalized in the <a href="http://www.colindsmith.com/TreasureChest" rel="nofollow">Treasure Chest</a>. I'd love to add them.<br /><br />Okay, I'll stop being a naughty boy now... :DColin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-5847599435900888692017-05-09T09:31:18.465-04:002017-05-09T09:31:18.465-04:00Lennon and Janet, thank you. This post just got ev...Lennon and Janet, thank you. This post just got even more useful.<br /><br />The 2010 post and discussion was a good reminder as well. And an interesting look at attitudes toward independent publishing, only seven years back.<br /><br />Now catching up on all the juicy Query Sharkery I've been missing recently. The Queen has been BUSY!DLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08768285199864217885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-5962705125891788432017-05-09T09:29:22.505-04:002017-05-09T09:29:22.505-04:00Yeah, I know I'm violating the three-post rule...Yeah, I know I'm violating the three-post rule, but I had to give a shout out to <b>Em Davey</b>. Hello! Are you new to the comments? If you are, welcome!! Lovely to have you among us. :)<br /><br />Okay, I'll quit with my violatin' now. At least I kept it to under 100. ;)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-86504869335501368742017-05-09T09:26:48.465-04:002017-05-09T09:26:48.465-04:00Thanks for the advice and the links to more good s...Thanks for the advice and the links to more good stuff, <b>Janet</b>. As for the "lovely folks" from the second link, if they found "send" to be the same as "submit," I suppose they might also have taken an "all things being relative," galaxy-wide perspective and found that Maryland is practically right on top of NYC. Which means they are neighbors. So many ways people can stretch the truth. Thanks for looking out for us.Amy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05324408700941398495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-75258889048974309092017-05-09T09:24:40.755-04:002017-05-09T09:24:40.755-04:00Fair dos, Janet. I just have to not be so lazy and...Fair dos, Janet. I just have to not be so lazy and trail my mouse over the text before I say anything in future. :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54536568826437763112017-05-09T09:14:10.741-04:002017-05-09T09:14:10.741-04:00Lennon asked a good question here so I updated the...Lennon asked a good question here so I updated the post to answer it.<br /><br />As for links: I made them red but then someone who was color blind couldn't see it at all so went back to blue.<br /><br />Janet Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.com