tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post1032601764816061080..comments2024-03-18T09:09:59.625-04:00Comments on Janet Reid, Literary Agent: Query Question: paid editorsJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-53164464414209681252015-04-25T10:22:39.504-04:002015-04-25T10:22:39.504-04:00I love Kristen Weber! I love Kristen Weber! JD Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05538238148744690853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-33701658676844704402015-04-23T19:03:49.467-04:002015-04-23T19:03:49.467-04:00While I'm reading this, Gossamer the Editor Ca...While I'm reading this, Gossamer the Editor Cat (who was hiding under my long white chiffon skirt) just peeped up with his giant green eyeballs, just snooting the air at me and lookin' all cute.<br /><br />I believe this to be HIS added greeting to mine above. It is possible he kind of digs Lilac. It is for sure he's got a thing for Janet.<br /><br />Mr. Phyllis E's husband is right. It's YOUR book. That's kind of the end of the story.DLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08768285199864217885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-14623642168483412182015-04-23T12:49:29.652-04:002015-04-23T12:49:29.652-04:00Best advice I've received came from my husband...Best advice I've received came from my husband, who said, "Remember that it's YOUR book. Listen to all the critiques and editorial comments, evaluate them, but only accept the changes that feel right for you and your book."Phyllis Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426014057471290677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-85817230244983984182015-04-23T07:20:11.030-04:002015-04-23T07:20:11.030-04:00I am one of those editors that people pay to work ...I am one of those editors that people pay to work on their books, and so far have a track record of happy clients. That's because I come from the school of editing that trains us to chant this mantra: "It's not my book, it's not my book..." Instead, it is our job to help an author's book be the best it can be, and that means being flexible about language use and sensitive to author voice while applying everything we know about art and craft to strengthen and clarify the prose and storyline. It's a delicate, difficult balance to hit. The best way to find an editor who suits you is to shop widely, and ask for sample edits (3-5 pages, double space, is the norm). I do sample edits gratis, though many editors charge a fee because it takes time and thought, and we are in business enterprises not social services. Once you find your editor, expect to have a long lead time (Janet is correct -- the good editors stay busy) and to pay a good chunk of change. Be clear with your editor what you want, and ask how they define copyediting, substantive or line editing, and developmental editing. These are very different tasks and very different costs.Carolyn Haleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12439194025687389191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-79480387575927640512015-04-22T21:14:55.066-04:002015-04-22T21:14:55.066-04:00Thank you Ginger! I appreciate that! :) Let's ...Thank you Ginger! I appreciate that! :) Let's hope so! :) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-71601076610206680932015-04-22T21:08:31.868-04:002015-04-22T21:08:31.868-04:00Hi Diane!
Adib, I like your "Alsos."
...Hi Diane!<br /><br />Adib, I like your "Alsos." <br /><br />Janet, what a timely post. I'm always so grateful to you... :-) <br />Lilachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08150029612208267342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-27722147397357917842015-04-22T20:42:43.380-04:002015-04-22T20:42:43.380-04:00Amy: I can only hope that a good editor will not s...Amy: I can only hope that a good editor will not simply re-write the novel for the author, but explain the changes to the author so s/he can decide whether to keep them, and learn from them. This way, the author becomes a better writer, and maybe need the editor less and less.<br /><br />Again, I'm speaking theoretically since I've never hired an editor.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-41525652210805410052015-04-22T20:12:12.823-04:002015-04-22T20:12:12.823-04:00Happy for your outcome, Brian (from yesterday'...Happy for your outcome, Brian (from yesterday's postings). Nothing beats open, honest communication. A good lesson, or just a good reminder for some. Good luck! Maybe AgentPerfect will love both!!Gingermollymarilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15684318210445109786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-72016221498909274892015-04-22T20:05:25.751-04:002015-04-22T20:05:25.751-04:00Adib, I thought that was a rhythmic choice. :)
I ...Adib, I thought that was a rhythmic choice. :)<br /><br />I have zero to add to this discussion. Hi, everyone!DLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08768285199864217885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-43752051862584388362015-04-22T17:06:41.347-04:002015-04-22T17:06:41.347-04:00Yeah... you Kristen Weber...why do I feel included...Yeah... you Kristen Weber...why do I feel included in this plea....? JR?<br />b-Nyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04190440924186746537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-34320484500374162762015-04-22T16:36:25.897-04:002015-04-22T16:36:25.897-04:00Amy -
I agree completely. My perspective is jade...Amy - <br /><br />I agree completely. My perspective is jaded. I am most certainly not an expert in this field and do feel sort of like a single guy giving dating advice... but I agree completely.<br /><br />I've seen it many times and I'm always blown away that an author will pay someone they don't know or barely researched for "editing" but be wary of anyone offering to critique for free. If you feel you're not capable of sifting the <i>good</i> advice from the <i>bad</i>, or fear a strangers advice will lead you astray, you've got bigger problems my friend. <br /><br />When all else fails, follow the rule of multiples. If 2 or more people mention the same problem, then you've got a problem. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-26492345446141474392015-04-22T16:31:26.218-04:002015-04-22T16:31:26.218-04:00I can't (at this stage) afford to hire an edit...I can't (at this stage) afford to hire an editor. I usually let a book sit for a couple of months and then go back over it line by line. I tend to do that once or twice in every format (first word .doc, then printed ms, then proof copy) as I seem to find different things in different formats.<br /><br />Also, although they say not to get family to proof-read, I find that my sister does the best job at finding missing words (LOTS of those, I'm dyslexic) and wrong words. She also does an amazing job at finding inconsistencies and things that are questionable in context.<br /><br />Mind you, I self-publish and am not looking for an agent, so my case is slightly different.<br /><br />One day I would like to be able to afford an editor, if only to see what value they add.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07885763976837081950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-60696040008229324482015-04-22T16:26:55.437-04:002015-04-22T16:26:55.437-04:00I have a freelance editor, and I nearly can't ...I have a freelance editor, and I nearly can't write a book without her anymore. She helped me "fix" a book before it sold--and she's helped me with every book since (even the ones under contract. I don't want my acquiring editor to see my books until the freelancer has had a shot at it.)<br /><br />She will also give a sample edit (for a small fee) so that you can both see if you'll work out as a team. <br /><br />I think the writer/freelance-editor relationship is kinda like having a therapist; if you need one, you sometimes have to keep trying until you get the right match. But, it's also true that no editor is better than bad editor.Elizabeth Langstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07492075685005250601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-66566938541296457292015-04-22T16:20:04.163-04:002015-04-22T16:20:04.163-04:00I read through this post and the comments murmurin...I read through this post and the comments murmuring: "Really? Interesting... no! You don't say? Hmmm!" I had no idea that hiring a pre-agent editor was such common practice.<br /><br />Here is my concern. Let's say I hire Editor Redpen to fix my manuscript. She does an excellent job, and as a result of her advice, I sign with Agent Superpants. She sells the MS. Fast forward a year or two, and I'm ready to show Agent Superpants my new manuscript.<br /><br />The phone rings. "Hi, Amy, it's Agent Superpants. I've read the new manuscript you sent me."<br />"Great! How did you like it."<br />Long pause. "It's... rough."<br />"Rough."<br />"Unpolished. Flabby. Your pacing dies completely in chapter four, and doesn't come back until chapter 17. All of your male characters are generic, and your protagonist is unfocused. What happened?" <br /><br />In short, if I can't whip a book into shape without the aid of an editor, then an agent, then another editor, then am I really ready to publish? At publishing houses, editors are hugely important in shaping a final manuscript, but that is much further downstream, and my impression is that the writer and editor work together. Will I really learn and improve as a writer if I pay someone else to identify and fix my weaknesses? Or, like a critique partner, does a paid editor act as a valuable early warning system to help me identify the faults in my writing that I can't see? <br /><br />I don't think this road is for me, but I can see I will mull this topic over for the next few days.<br />Amy Schaeferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263719891092841767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-44378520195797933592015-04-22T16:00:20.448-04:002015-04-22T16:00:20.448-04:00I'm a compulsive editor and a critique partner...I'm a compulsive editor and a critique partner. I really hope I'm able to offer advice to my partners that is helpful, whether it's positive or negative. I completely agree that it's WRONG (caps appropriate) to try to change voice or suck the soul out of a piece... but I also think it's unfair to not suggest the big changes (a plot point that just doesn't work) along with the small (typos or unclear wording). <br /><br />I've often considered taking on freelance editing jobs, but I'm uncertain as to what education I should have. I have no formal editing background, though I have edited many types as pieces working in communications, and have been a critique partner even longer. <br /><br />Thanks, folks, for some good suggestions of editors to look at. I'd also be interested in any suggestions for education specifically in editing. Does anyone know of any good courses?<br /><br />Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-54644880878551049952015-04-22T14:58:57.675-04:002015-04-22T14:58:57.675-04:00I think the most important thing to look for in a ...I think the most important thing to look for in a CP or an editor is someone who will help you tell the story you want to tell in the best way you can. I've been fortunate enough to find great CPs who aren't afraid to tell me my work is terrible when it is, and who offer excellent advice on how to fix it. For those who don't want to hire a professional editor, I highly recommend attending a conference and connecting with others who write the same genre as you. That's how I met all my CPs. And while conferences may be expensive, CPs will (usually) be with you for multiple books or even multiple drafts of the same book free of charge. (Though of course you'll be doing the same for them, so you'll need to be prepared for the extra time commitment.)<br /><br />If you're looking online for CPs, Janice Hardy also posts occasional CP meet-up entries on her blog, similar to Maggie Stiefvater's. (Thanks for pointing that one out, Adib - Maggie Stiefvater is one of my favorite authors, so I imagine I'd find writers with similar tastes/styles there if I'm ever looking for a new CP.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-83820314404023495132015-04-22T14:15:11.756-04:002015-04-22T14:15:11.756-04:00I've had mixed results with finding CPs and &q...I've had mixed results with finding CPs and "editors" online. Living in the boonies, there is not exactly a cornucopia of literary types I can meet with, but I do have a tight group of writing friends who meet regularly, and we critique each other's stuff. One friend is great with continuity issues, another with voice, and another with overall plot issues, so it's great. <br /><br />I tried several times to find CPs through various means. Most online CP meet-up sites don't have a lot of folks willing to read commercial/literary. I think it was just my bad luck, but each time I did find one, we critiqued each other's first chapters and then they wrote to inform me that they'd started their own editing service and they'd be glad to take me on as a client, but they were now too busy to critique for free. I do have a day job, but it only pays in hugs and smiles - which I would not trade for the world, but this is not a very marketable commodity, so I can't afford to hire a pro. <br /><br />I did pay (I think) $70 for an advance manuscript critique with a pro at a conference last year. She only saw my synopsis + 1st 20 pages, which I sent in a month or so prior. When we met during the conference later, I was completely blown away by her insight and brilliant advice. Knowing she'd been vetting by the conference organizers made me willing to give it one last shot. I'm so glad I did.<br /><br />I would say if ANY editor wants to make the kind of changes that suck the soul out of your MS, run like hell. That still, small voice in your head knows what it’s talking about. <br />Christina Seinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18411040428007697691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-2308754085943189582015-04-22T13:25:43.599-04:002015-04-22T13:25:43.599-04:00I found my editor at the Absolute Write website. I...I found my editor at the Absolute Write website. I have a love-hate relationship with punctuation, capitalization, screen directions and unnecessary words. You know, all those things I was supposed to learn forty somethings years ago.<br />He straightened me out and I learned a lot from him. The thing is--I recognize my shortcomings and sought help. Now if I can only get him to do my taxes.<br />My MS is tighter and reads better then before his help.<br />I guess I was one of the lucky ones.<br />Kreggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07229620504046221727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-32972617332595501812015-04-22T13:04:35.931-04:002015-04-22T13:04:35.931-04:00Well this is embarrassing. Apparently I really lik...Well this is embarrassing. Apparently I really like to begin sentences with "Also."Adib Khorramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836332867898941638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-24647567696308939352015-04-22T13:03:33.751-04:002015-04-22T13:03:33.751-04:00I have had mixed experiences with beta readers/cri...I have had mixed experiences with beta readers/critique partners. I've finally settled on one CP that I really click with and am hoping to find another sooner or later.<br /><br />Maggie Stiefvater has a cool critique partner meet-up on her website, and she suggests potential partners only exchange the first fifty pages to see if they will gel.<br /><br />I have a hard time imagining myself paying an editor to look at my book. Since my book would presumably go through more edits with an agent and then editor at the publishing house, I seems like adding an extra editor in the chain is one too many cooks in the kitchen. That's just my take, though.<br /><br />I honestly think I learned more about writing from taking Janet's suggestion (made on QueryShark multiple times if memory serves) to type out a book you've loved, to really absorb what makes it so good. I've already typed one and I'm halfway through another one, and it's made a huge difference in my (own) writing.<br /><br />Also, I confess, I find a well-placed "Um." to be an immensely powerful tool in dialogue.<br /><br />Also, I finally got to play the reCAPTCHA game today. It had me select the pictures of wine.<br /><br />It knows me well.Adib Khorramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836332867898941638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-66804656755428901972015-04-22T12:59:34.982-04:002015-04-22T12:59:34.982-04:00All I can say is: Buyer beware. There are a lot of...All I can say is: Buyer beware. There are a lot of 'editors' who will be quick to take your money and offers shit advice. Also, if you're in doubt, ask what the policy is if you're dissatisfied with the service BEFORE you pony up.<br /><br />If the 'editor' balks, there's your answer.Ardenwolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14053900506482830292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-86552104345658421052015-04-22T12:57:07.285-04:002015-04-22T12:57:07.285-04:00Disclaimer: None of this applies to Kristen Weber...Disclaimer: None of this applies to Kristen Weber who I don't know, but who apparently is the real deal.<br /><br />My only experience with a hired editor was as a new writer when I would have taken advice from the neighborhood grocer. <br /><br />It was awful. She was borderline abusive when I disagreed, found ways to charge more than she should have and made me feel like I was lucky to be wasting her time.<br /><br />I think she may have even suggested a prologue. No, that's not true.<br /><br />My (embittered) take, now that I would never consider it again, is this: <br /><br />One, don't do this if you are not feeling strong about yourself as a writer yet. And two, consider whose advice would be more valuable - someone who is paid to find problems, or a beta reader who is going to tell you why they put the book down to get a drink and didn't come back.Susan Bonifanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01140265430286280374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-91023655981903646872015-04-22T12:31:59.731-04:002015-04-22T12:31:59.731-04:00As I said above, this is a topic about which I hav...As I said above, this is a topic about which I have very little input, except for my positive experience working with beta readers, and I know we all have similar stories. But the question when to engage an editor's services is intriguing. The fact is, even after the best editorial work, your novel still might not capture the interest of an agent because 1) your voice, 2) the subject matter, 3) the market, 4) insert a host of other reasons here that have nothing to do with how beautifully written and well-edited your novel is. I don't think I would pay to have a novel edited unless I had <i>at the very least</i> a "revise and resend" from an agent.<br /><br />That's my current thinking, anyway.<br /><br />I can assure you, here at FPLM-Carkoon, we subject all submitted manuscripts to the most stringent and severe editing. It starts with the removal of all adjectives, "just"s, "well"s, and "um"s, and then the replacement of all dialog tags with "said." Next we apply the 10% rule, and randomly cut 10% of your novel. If we think the novel has series potential, we'll cut the last chapter, or turn it into a teaser for the second book. Finally we remove any and all references to chickens, hens, turkeys, and roosters. We have a very strict "no fowl language" policy. :)Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-14807112051057805702015-04-22T11:23:10.267-04:002015-04-22T11:23:10.267-04:00Tony, I'd advise against paying an editor to h...Tony, I'd advise against paying an editor to help with your query. There's a number of writers' forums online where you can get feedback. The big reason why you should do that is that you can critique other queries. You will learn more from having to identify and explain what works for you and what doesn't that you will from getting feedback on your own query. You'll also get a chance to read a whole lot of queries, which will give you a taste of what it's like for agents. When you read the same clichés over and over, you'll understand much better why they cease to be effective.Jenzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11652680551107638557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17040756.post-32298738480317202672015-04-22T10:40:15.114-04:002015-04-22T10:40:15.114-04:00Finding a great editor is difficult, but finding a...Finding a great editor is difficult, but finding a great editor that many writers can afford for the whole manuscript is a far more daunting task.<br /><br />In a way, just as with many other things in life, the mere opportunity of working with an excellent (paid) editor depends on whether the writer has $ or connections. For those who can afford an editor, research is key. For those who can't, research is still key, because the knowledge of who is good and who is not can be just as important as the service. <br /><br />Also, thank goodness for CPs and betas. Megan Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00752842865397799428noreply@blogger.com